Piers300

Just got back from the local East Kent 7 meeting, where true to form, the car failed to start when ready to leave. However a quick squirt of petrol into the T/B's and it started. I went prepared for this to happen.

i will answer all questions tomorrow.

Thank you everyone for your continued help.

Piers

Unfortunately, the car would not start this evening, so I am back to where I was before. It still starts with a squirt of fuel.

Piers

Lee - I just did the in-line filter that is located behind the drivers seat. I did not know there was another one, Where is it ?

Piers

Paul  -   When the car was picked up as a non runner, by the company who serviced it, they had ordered in a new in-tank fuel pump, because they thought it was either the pump or the relay module, which was replaced during the 6000 mile service. They tested the fuel pressure and said it was good.

The car is a standard 2004 R300 with a locked MBE 72908 ECU and standard injectors.

The air is taken from within the engine bay, via a Pipercross filter. I cleaned and washed the filter today, as I have a spare. I was going to fit it and I thought it was new, but it turned out to be dirty, but still in the CC packing. It came with the car when I bought it six years ago and because it was in the packing, I never really looked at it. I've got the foam filter cleaner and oiler left over from motor cycle Trials days, when you cleaned the bikes filter after virtually every trial. 

Piers

Jonathan. The volts on start up with the old battery was 10.2. I have not measured the new battery yet.

Piers

John. Yes the old and new battery are on a conditioner when in the garage. When I took the old battery out, I measured with a certified Fluke 87 meter and it was 13 volts. The car had been running before hand hence the voltage but it is 6 plus years old, so that is pretty good. However the new battery cranks the engine faster.

Piers

This morning, the car started on the second push of the start button and settled down into a smooth idle. I have to admit to being highly relieved and delighted at the same time.

Piers

Well after a rather good weekend of Kent County Show yesterday, Wimbledon and F1 this afternoon, plus quite a few hours in the garage I will bring you up to date, I replaced the battery with a new Banner even though the old one is six plus years old and reading 13 volts when removed from the car. 

i then set about the t/b's and tried to adjust the opening to 1mm on each barrel. I then checked the resistance of the TPS and got a reading smack on what it is meant to be. I then started the car having to use the squirt of fuel in each barrel and using the synchroniser, checked the air flow and that was also spot on.

Finally, I changed the in line fuel filter and what a faff that was. I got it done and I started the car. It was a bit rough to start with and then it settled down. I then left it to cool down, watched the F1 and took the dog for a walk. When it had really cooled, it started first turn of the key. I have to say I was mighty relieved, but the real test will be tomorrow morning.

Piers

Lee  Thanks for the link on the TPS. I hope to get some time in the garage tomorrow or Sunday. Unfortunately, mowing comes first and then teak oiling the garden tables and chairs.

I have to fit the new battery, fuel filter, check the TPS and check the connection in the multipin plug below the t/b's.

Thanks again

Piers

A new Banner battery and fuel filter arrived today and both will be fitted over the weekend. If these don't crack the problem, the final thing is checking the TPS resistance.

Piers

Dave J. I just tried disconnecting the air temp and water temp sensors in turn and no difference.

The next thing is to do the TPS resistance check and check the balance. That will have to wait till Friday.

Thank you everyone for responses.

Piers

Steve, I am in Selsey for the weekend, but not in the 7, otherwise I would have joined you.

Piers

Hi Lee

Thanks for the advice. I will try and find your other threads and have a read. I have never tried to balance the RBTB's or adjust the voltage of the TPS before, so will need to do some reading and a phone call might be very useful next week. One thing I do have left over from my old Super Sprint with twin 40 DCOE's is an air flow meter, which looks like it will come in handy.

Piers

Thanks everyone for your input, so will give it a go at the weekend.

Piers

Just tried removing the filler cap and no whoosh. I tried starting and it cranks but does not fire at all.

Piers

Jack - thanks for your input.

Nothing happens when the throttle is opened either a little or a lot. It does not start or even fire on any cylinder.

it was in for a service last week and they checked fuel pump pressure which the said was good. Initially, i thought the in tank pump was duff, but it is working fine. Once you squirt fuel into the t/b's, it starts and runs well and will restart if stopped and is still warn.

it is going back to the garage at some point, but I just do not like being beaten.

Piers

Jack - thanks for your input.

Nothing happens when the throttle is opened either a little or a lot. It does not start or even fire on any cylinder.

it was in for a service last week and they checked fuel pump pressure which the said was good. Initially, i thought the in tank pump was duff, but it is working fine. Once you squirt fuel into the t/b's, it starts and runs well and will restart if stopped and is still warn.

it is going back to the garage at some point, but I just do not like being beaten.

Piers

I just put a 115 amp hour battery in parallel with the existing Banner 30 Ahr and no change. It cranks fast but does not fire. Squirting some petrol into the Throttle bodies and it starts immediately and will restart if stopped.

Piers

Jonathan

No that was not me on the marine engines.

You are right, there is no throttle. I did not want to go into technicalities, but with our integral actuator, mounted onto the fuel injection pump, with the cover off, you can give the fuel rack a prod with you finger and the engine starts. On a 24 volt system, I think we only had 2 volts on the speed controller when the engine was cranking and the starter motor was taking all the current.

There you are  - boring or what

Piers

Jonathan - having been in the generator manufacturing industry since 1971 and for the last 23 years doing diesel and generator control systems, I am an official bore on large diesels and generators, so stop me before I start.

Piers

Hi Ian

I will use the electric fence battery in parallel with the existing battery, as it is huge and give it a go on Friday. The new battery I just ordered does not arrive till Tuesday and hopefully it may do the trick. As you know this has been ongoing since IOW Blat 2015.

regards

Piers

New Banner 530034 just ordered. Let's see if that makes the difference.

Piers

Is this Kirchoff's Law.  In my business, which involves large Diesel engines, when an electronic controller gets its supply from the same source I.e terminals, as the starter motor, we see virtually no voltage at the controller on cranking, as all the current is taken by the starter motor. As soon as the engine starts by manually giving it some throttle, the engine runs fine under the electronic speed governor controller.

Maybe the battery needs investigation as it is six years old.

Piers

Thank you for your responses  - so I am not alone with this issue.

When I crank the car from cold, there's is nothing - it does not fire on any cylinder. However a squirt of petrol in the T/B's and away it goes and it continues to run. This discounts low battery voltage, but I will check cranking volts drop. The problem is that it did not do this before, as I have had the car for 6 years. The battery is 6+ years old and probably needs to be replaced.

Piers

I have an R300K built is 2004. I have been having starting problems for quite some time (see separate posts). The engine has had the coil, distributor cap, rotor arm and all HT leads replaced (it has a good spark) and the battery cranks well and is on a conditioner. The car has an MBE 72908 ECU running standard software 967BC474.

It has just been serviced and the Non Starting fault was thought to be the MFU relay which was replaced. When at the garage being serviced, it started every day on numerous occasions for about a week. However, once driven home and left overnight, it then would not start.

When starting from cold, the engine just cranks and does not fire. However, if you squirt some fuel into the Throttle bodies, it starts and runs first press of the button.  It continues to run fine and will restart if not left for too long. I did a 70 mile trip last Saturday with no problems and stopped on the way to re-fuel and it started without issue.

The fuel filter was replaced at 19782 miles and it now has 26000 miles on the clock. When at the garage, the fuel pressure from the in tank pump was checked and was good, so it is unlikely the filter is blocked or the pump is faulty. The Toad alarm is working and does what it should.

Any suggestions why it will not start from cold. I have measured the resistance of the water rail temperature sensor, which was 2.67K. A friend measured his and it was nearly identical.

All suggestions where to look gratefully received.

Piers