Piers300

So today, I refitted the injectors which were tested and were fine and re-connected the ECU that was also tested and is working and test results say perfect. - no faults. I then fitted a new starter motor which cranks really fast, but still it will not start from cold. Just to check, I squirted in some fuel into the throttle bodies and away it went. I warmed it up and then turned it off and it did re-start. I then left it for an hour and tried to start and it would not fire. So no progress.

Next thing is to get the cable that connects between ECU and laptop and get Easimap down loaded. The only items not yet replaced are the in tank fuel pump and the TPS.

Piers

I removed the starter motor today and it is part number: 0 986 018 240

It says on it: Remanufactured by Bosch, so it is a replacement s/m. It also has an alloy spacer.

Searching on the Internet and it comes up as suitable for a Ford Sierra 1.6.

M25 (Ian) has recommended a specialist in Chatham, so I will take it there on Monday for assessment 

Piers

Just done a search on starter motors and there seems to be issues with the Brise causing the volts to drop to 5.2 volts. Revilla did the evaluation and shows the graphs from an oscilloscope. This was causing the ECU all sorts of problems.

i need to find out what starter motor I have. Can anyone advise what starter was fitted as standard by Caterham in 2004 on an R300

Thank you​

Piers

Jonathan. I don't know and assume it is what was fitted as standard.

Piers

Hi Gordon

My injectors tested and all are in good condition, so I am alright at the moment.

regards

Piers

Update

The injectors and ECU have been tested by SBD and all are working fine. 

The only things not changed are:  The TPS and the in-tank fuel pump.

The TPS looked good when connected to the software and was doing what it should.

The fuel pump is a bit on an unknown.

Steve at SBD suggests that the problem may be a duff starter motor. He says that if the cranking speed is irregular, the the ECU is re-setting itself all the time and does not give the engine a spark. Does this sound possible ?  It has a new battery fitted and seems to crank well.

Piers

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Hi Gordon

Trust you are well. I was told you are now based in Scotland - great we love it there and go fishing every year for two weeks near Oban.

i am having a few starting problems with my R300 K which has 0280 155 868 injectors. They are creamy white in color . I have just sent them off to be tested and cleaned. If they are faulty/shot, then I may be interested in buying your injectors. I should know later this week.

kind regards

Piers

Paul.

ECU and injectors sent to SBD for testing. The injectors (0280 155 868) will have new seals and filters fitted and will be cleaned. Let's hope they give more fuel on cold start.

Are these injectors used on the R300, R400 and R500?

Piers

Paul

I just spoke to Craig at SBD Motorsport (agents for MBE) who was very helpful. He asked if the injectors have been tested and they have not. They can test the injectors and re-build/clean them and can also test the ECU if no problems found with the injectors.

No, Arnie did not leave any files as I have no laptop to put it onto. I do have an old work laptop out in the garage and I was going to see it that still works. What do I need to run Easimap?

I am quite tempted to just get this done by SBD.

Piers

Still looking for an MBE 72908

Piers

Paul

I understand the fuel pressure was checked with the ignition on and the engine not running.

i have tried switching the ignition off and on quite a few times and no difference.

i have checked the voltage at each injector when cranking and it was about 6.4 volts.

The connection to the ECU was done by Arnie Webb and I have no experience operating this system or making adjustments. Arnie is on holiday at the moment so I am not in contact with him till he gets back, so I am having to be patient.

Piers

Jonathan. I fitted a brand new battery a couple of weeks ago. When being serviced, they checked fuel pressure at the rail and it was around 3.5 bar. We are reasonably sure it is not the in tank pump and more likely to be a wiring fault or an ECU fault. Everything else has been replaced.. I have to admit that I am beginning to loose patience with the car and have even thought of getting rid of it.

I now have a connection to the engine ECU and need to get myself the cable and software to view what is happening when cranking. The car still starts and runs fine when fuel is squirted into the T/B's. It will start when hot sometimes, but not from cold.

Piers

Lee. Thanks for the tip on the connector. I will have a look after the German GP.

i did look at it before but could not get it undone. How does it release?

Piers

Still looking for an MBE 72908 ECU.

Piers

Hi Lee. No I have not tried the on off priming. I will try it later today. Going back six years when I got he car, it was never that easy to start, but it always did start. We have done two IOW trips and on both occasions it would not start, but eventually did after a lot of fiddling, as I always thought it was an ignition problem. In the last four months since coming back from the IOW, it has got really bad to the extent it does not even fire when cranked.

Like you, I think it is probably something simple like a bad connection, because if I squirt in fuel, it starts and runs fine and keeps running and will restart when hot - sometimes.

Piers

Hi Lee. I believe that all speed sensors have a magnetic tip. The ones I use at work on large Diesel engines will pick up swarf particles, caused by the starter motor ring gear engagement. When it happens, the ac voltage coming out of the magnetic pick-up is very badly effected and the speed control system goes a bit haywire.

Piers

Lee. Yes, it seems that we have the same issue. If I start it by squinting fuel in the T/B's, away it goes and it runs smoothly and goes well. Last week, I went to the local 7 Club Meeting. I had to squirt fuel in to start the car at home and I had a 40 minute run to the meeting. So after eating, we came out and it started first time, so I felt confident it would start when time to leave. Another 45 minutes of chat and time to go and of course it would not start, much to everyone's amazement. A quick squirt and away it went and ran fine.

The only thing I have not replaced is the ECU and the TPS and then there is the wiring.. Plus I do have he original in tank pump, but this was checked when serviced and was I think 3.5 bar at the fuel rail.

Lee. I will keep you in the loop on all developments.

Piers

Unfortunately, the car would not start today, but did fire once or twice on the first attempt. Since then and numerous attempts - nothing, so we are not there yet. Incredibly frustrating and I have not squirted fuel into the t/b's and I am sure it will then start. Only thing that has not been replaced is the TPS, but when connected to the laptop, it seemed to be working to specification. I did take out the new crankshaft sensor and put the old one back in, but no difference so the new one went back in.

Piers

Lee. The crankshaft sensor is Euro Car Parts no: 419750061 and had a list price of £72.26 and I paid £23.49. Description is crankshaft sensor Rover/MG 2. I am not quite sure why the discount but probably a cash sale.

Piers

Lee The replacement sensor from Eurospares was £23 and is pretty easy to replace. It just bolts into place and has a plug and socket arrangement .I will get you the part number tomorrow as sitting in bed reading posts at the moment.

Revilla  when Arnie connected to the ECU and we cranked for the first time, the software displayed some very strange readings from the sensor, no doubt caused by the swarf on the tip of the sensor. As I understand it, the ECU would not switch on the fuel with this incorrect signal.  I am no expert in this at all so it is from my memory from talking to Arnie. By squirting fuel into the t/b's , the engine starts and I must assume that the voltage from the sensor gets better and the ECU then gives fuel.

John  the wiring for the flywheel sensor is a fair distance from the new HT leads, as it is down by the clutch cable. However the HT lead from the coil runs quite close. I will check it tomorrow when I do some start tests

Piers

I am told by Arnie, that the ECU gets it signal from the crank sensor and then the ECU gives the engine some fuel. As the signal from the crank sensor was rubbish due to the swarf on the tip, the ECU was not giving the RB's any fuel, hence it would start if you squirted some in and the speed increased which was sufficient for the system to run and get a better voltage from the sensor.

Piers

Well, I think we have a result. Arnie Webb very kindly came over to my house on Saturday. He said the first thing that needed doing was to install the RS232 cable into the ECU, as without it, we were in the dark to what was going on. He already suspected one item and this would show up on the laptop once connected. So once the cable was installed and connected to his laptop, we cranked the engine and Arnie noticed that the signal from the flywheel sensor was very strange and all over the place.

We removed the flywheel sensor, something I have not replaced and found a bit of swarf on the magnetic tip. This was what Arnie suspected from the start. As the sensor looked rather tatty, a quick trip into Canterbury where we got a new unit. When installed, the car started first press of the button and has continued to do so since yesterday.  The signal from the new sensor was as it should be on the laptop.

So it looks to have been the crankshaft sensor that was causing the problems and some regular starts from cold should prove we have cracked the problem.

A very big thank you to Arnie Webb for his time to sort my problems out. 

Piers

​

I had a Super Sprint from 1985 to 2010. I recall issues of the in tank sealant being sucked into the fuel line and blocking it. The way to clear it, is disconnect fuel line at the tank and carbs and either use an air line or foot pump to pressurise the fuel line. What flew out of mine way interesting.

Piers

Hi John

The cable is being installed on Saturday, so watch this space.

Piers

Your  questions

Yes, I have tried cold starting with the Pipercross filter removed - no difference.

Yes, I keep my foot off the throttle - always have, but once it starts then the throttle can be used.

when it starts it idles at around 1000 rpm

No, the wiring loom does not have a serial port that I can find and I don't have any comms cable or laptop with the old XP.

Thanks all

Piers