CB Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Leaving aside the DVA/CC upgrade route debate, what are the benefits of the CC Supersport kit to a standard 1600K ? Is there any gain other than an increased max rpm (with accompanying power lift)? How different is the car to drive? Does it lose out lower down the rev range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Whether the CC SS upgrade is the best route will no doubt be answered by others shortly. I can say it makes a significant improvement to the performance of the 1600 K. I had mine converted about 3 years ago. However, the cam timing tends to be significantly off optimum. I took my car the Dave Andrews on Friday to have vernier pulleys fitted plus the TB160 throttle body that fits on the standard plennum (52mm versus 48mm). The cam timing was well out using the CC pulleys. 7 degrees inlet and 14 degrees exhaust. Dave set it up for maximum performance and the increase in torque from around 2k rpm was very noticeable. Wish I had done it ages ago. So that comes back to the first question ie is it the bset way to go. I think probably not as the cost to fit other cams, verniers and an Emerald ECU must work out around the same price and give more flexibility for other upgrades later which the CC SS kit does not. If I was doing it again I would buy one of Dave Andrews packages I think because that would probably be better value for money and makes significant future upgrades possible without throwing away lots of bits. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I think I agree with David - although I haven't made any upgrades to my engine yet! It looks like better value and more choice to go the DVA route, the difference may come at resale time. CC are reluctant to take modified cars (except ones they have done) in part-ex, and some people would be nervous about buying something modified 2nd hand. So really it all depends on what you plan to do with the car I guess. Roadsport build photo's here Le Mans 2004 photo's here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 Thanks - as you say the decision of CC vs DVA seems to be one of "ease" of resale/trade-in vs technical flexibility. But whether it is CC or DVA, from a subjective point of view how does the performance increase? Is it just the ability to push the revs higher or do you gain something throughout the rev range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 The CC upgrade is claimed to up the power from around 115 at 6000rpm (?) to around 135 at 7000 rpm. Peak torque comes in around 4500rpm from as far as I recall 3500 and is increased to around 115lb ft. I think a good-un will make around 140hp. To achieve all this it's essential to have the SS cam timed correctly and the standard pulleys probably won't do this unless you are really lucky. Having said that the car does go quite a bit better straight out of the box. If you are worried about resale back to CC, just keep the old pulleys and swap them back. The verniers will come in handy for the next car! The TB160 throttle body is supposed to give an extra 5ft lbs across the rev range and hikes the power by about 4 hp in addition. The reality is the 1600K needs all the grunt it can get so the torque hike is probably more use than the HP. Properly timed the tickover on the SS gets a bit lumpy and the slow speed capability ie inching forward in traffic becomes rough tending to kangaroo if you try to creep forward. I'm pleased with the SS especially now that I've got the cam timing sorted. Where are you? If you're not too far away we could meet up and you could try mine. Best idea is to drive one and see what you think. CC may let you do a test drive if they think they may sell a kit. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycox Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I like the idea of keeping the car standard and 5 years ago i upgraded with the SS kit. I have been pleased with it. At the time it was quite a noticeable upgrade but as with all these uprades you get so used to it over such a short period of time. I like the idea of checking the cam timing and having looked at Dave Andrews web pages i may use offset dowels to re time my cams. For road driving the 7 is quick what ever the spec. Driving on the left side 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 CC are reluctant to take modified cars I understood it was quite a bit simpler than that. CC *won't* take third-party modded cars except for those with only minor componentry changes (exhaust etc.?) Back on-topic - the 52mm throttle-body upgrade uses Rover-part MHB000261. This is the tb used on VVC Rover machines. It currently sells for just under £150 new from Rover (inc. VAT) or £100ish on e-bay s/h (a new one went for that today). I've just bought one from a specialist Rover-breakers for about the same money - I might slap it on my standard 1.6k for a laugh, but I bought it to use in conjunction with a new 1.8k engine running a VVC manifold on an Emerald. Getting the engine properly-timed is a very good idea... Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 AndyCox, I looked into setting valve timing with offset dowels and a chat to DVA convinced me that this was a difficult way to do it. Dave said "I wouldn't do it that way again" so I took that as the cue to buy some verniers (which I have still to fit...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 If you're interested I have a pair of Supersport cams and a Pre EU3 ECU but no immobiliser/plippers that came off my 2000 car when upgrading. The cams did about 7000 miles only. Got to be great value at.....errmmmmmmmm...........£350? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Ken - I haven't got quite as far as deciding to go that route yet... David W - I'm not that close but I'll bear it in mind. I am still in the "so many choices" stage . The offer is appreciated though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberts Wallet Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Interesting you say that David. While at Emerald yesterday (sunday) I spoke to Dave Walker about fitting Verniers and he said exactly the same...your total power will increase when fitting the verniers but you will loose drivability if you still had a plenum fitted, his advise was to wait and fit them once you go the whole hog, Ie TB,s etc BTW, mine, a 1.6SS with 52mm TB, standard pullies and caterham 4-2-1 zorst made 139.6 BHP @ 7200 and 111.4 ilbft @ 5237 Very pleased with that plot here not that good 'cos I took it with my digi camera but you get the idea (it got creased on the way home tho ☹️) Gareth Blue and Carbon 6 Speed Supersport lots of Caterham piccies here Edited by - Gareth Harrold on 29 Nov 2004 19:28:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Hi Gareth, Seems an encouraging power output! Sort of confirms what I thought ie 1.6 and 1.8 not a lot different on power but the latter does it at lower revs with a bit more torque. The car drives very well above about 2000rpm so the low speed bit is really not an issue. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Why is it always the CC or DVA route…there's loads of other options !! R300 NUT'errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Edited by - Bafty Crastard on 30 Nov 2004 08:50:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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