Mike Bees Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Well not really 'club speed events', but the word on the street is that for 2005 a whole bunch of regional speed championships (ACSMC, LCAMC, ASEMC, AEMC, All Circuits, Circuit Drivers & Speed League) will allow aeroscreens and List 1B tyres for roadgoing kitcar classes. This means lots more events available to those who don't live close to Wales but want to run in roadgoing spec on nice tyres. I don't know if the HSA or Midland champs are going to follow suit - anyone got their ear to the ground? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I did some of the ASWMC ( south west england ) championship rounds this year on my trusty 32R's and it was great , 1b's and aeros have been allowed in the South West for several years . It about time the regs were changed in the name of safety , things have moved on since the xflows with 135 bhp and drum brakes Guess the Lotus 7 Club Championship was leading the way then 😬 C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 Now updated Edited by - Dave Jackson on 27 Oct 2004 15:37:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I think part of it may be environmental. The harder road tyres can screach or squeal on the limit or during a spin. The softer rubber tends to be a bit quieter. One of the complaints made at a venue near me is not so much the engine noise but the tyre noise as it "sounds like a car is going to crash" or so the locals have commented . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Where you have 'Roadgoing kit car' type classes it's an obvious thing to do. If 'Circuit Driver' is going that way then that may push the HSA likewise? It should spark things up a bit anyway. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 As somebody who was at the meeting where this was decided, I can tell you that environmentals and safety were nothing to do with it. The main reason is that so many cars are now bought/built with this type of tyre, including specialist cars from manufacturers (Elise/Exige etc) that it was felt that a lot of potential competitors were being discouraged from entering. We are aware of a number of people who would like to compete but are put off by having to shell out for a second set of wheels and 'rubbish' tyres in order to do so. The only other class that people could enter with 1Bs and aeros (until now) was Sports Libre. When you get people like Pat Doran turning up with a rallycross Escort WRC that can deliver up to 800bhp it is quite offputting for newbies. While list 1B is still not permitted for other roadgoing vehicles on cost grounds, kit cars generally get a much better mileage from this type of tyre and the cost is not such an issue. It also brings the Southeast in line with the SW, but does split us from the Midlands, so a mixed bag there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I recall the south west championship has a crossply vs radial rule that hence bans avon acb's . Super soft 32R's are about as soft as you can go ...... Does anyone know if this rule will be extended across the country or are Avon tyres about to increase production of acb10 A24 compound ? Dave C7 TOP Powered by Hellier Performance 😬 Now updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 is this likely to cause a rethink in the club competition classes... especially with regard the 1700cc limit in class 2 & 3 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Rob Are you posting on behalf of David 'Troublemaker' Nelson....or are you trying to get him up into Class5 😬 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Considering my options for 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 actually it was a genuine question but it is a bonus if it upsets the troublemaker.... 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 I presume Rob is hinting at the class structure that is run for kit cars in the regional championships ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Day Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Interesting topic...I have had discussions with Tony Fletcher (co-ordinator of various championships - including the Midland Hillclimb) and he will not change the regs to allow List 1B tyres to be included in the roadgoing class of the MHC. This is to keep in line with the MSA regs for National 'A' licence events. Apparently B licence events may be more flexible. I put forward the argument that many vehicles have 1B tyres fitted as factory standard (i.e CR500) but the only hope that we have in this championship is to have tyres (re)categorised in to the 1A class. Having spoken to Paul Smith at BMTR (who is very knowlegeable AND on the MSA tyre committee) he says that it is very unlikely for the CR500 (as an example) to be moved from 1B to 1A. It is frustrating, but Tony said if you want to go onto slicks (or 1B) go into the racing class. It is consistent with the view that the roadgoing class is seen as a feeder for the 'bigger' racing car categories... Does anyone have any closer links with the tyre manufacturers? as a solution may be to get a good new tyre to be introduced as a List 1A... cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Grahm - I was actually meaning the L7 classes, but just stirring 😳 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hello everyone 😬 😬 Where should I start 🤔 🤔 Well Rob is doing such a good job, I think I will sit back and watch well for the time being 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 well seat back had a look so here goes. L7C speed champoinship is leading the way in terms of regs. We allow aeroscreens were others do not. As far a the 1700cc discussion I am happy to be in a club that is at the forefront of motorsport, If Rob wants to stay with the dinosaurs *eek*and not be at the front so be it. 😬 😬 David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Anyone know how a manufacturer would go about getting a tyre from 1B into 1A? Is it a testing thing, ie must have life of X.000 miles on a boggo mondeo or whatever? Or just someone (this tyre committee?) who looks at each tyre and says "that's 1A but thats 1B" based on a subjective judgement as to whether it's mainstream or built to get round the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Steve wrote "...he will not change the regs to allow List 1B tyres to be included in the roadgoing class of the MHC. This is to keep in line with the MSA regs for National 'A' licence events. Apparently B licence events may be more flexible." Can anyone with a Blue Book handy, or photographic memory of same, explain this? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian crocker Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Probably because the Roadgoing and Roadgoing Specialist Production (or whatever it is called) classes only allow list 1A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Looking at this years Midland Hillclimb regulations the only 'roadgoing' class is for 'Modified Production Sports Cars over 1400cc up to 2000cc', the requirement is tax, insurance, MOT and List 1A. Since this is a Westfield/Caterham/Lotus benefit List 1B would be a straightforward change. AFAICT there's no requirement to run a windscreen in this class. So, Mike, what are your plans? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Day Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Hi Paul Yes, you can run without a screen in this class - although as I understand it if you are also competing in a championship that runs alongside it - such as the HSA or Midland Speed - then you have to run in the spec as per that championship (at all events). In the case of the HSA I think this means that you must run with a screen (I'd have to check the regs!) I agree with you that it would appear easy to change the rules to allow List 1B tyres but Tony Fletcher was quite insistent that he wouldn't do it. I have had several long converstaions about the subject with him and know that many current MHC entrants would be happy to change the tyre classification. However, I feel that there is a mix of issues that affect the position. These include the national regs and also the fact that - in this class at least - it would likely lead to new class records. Obviously great when you get one but it would have an effect on the whole championship - as extra points are awarded for class records (9 points for a win plus 1 point for a new record). Tony also mentioned that it could create more issues (for the championship...and him as organiser) as other classes may also ask for special dispensation. Personally, I think the most satisfactory answer is to get the most suitable tyres re-categorised if at all possible. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 The most satisfactory answer is to compete in proper racing cars... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 I can't find anything in the HSA regs which mandates windscreens, but it's odd that everyone uses them if they're not compulsory. You can't re-categorise tyres into List 1A on a per-class basis... I can understand stock tin-top classes not allowing short-lifed soft List 1B tyres. Plans, moi? Well, not sure at the moment. Am almost certainly about to be full-time employed again, and whilst it's not loadsamoney I should be able to get out for a bit of fun next year. Not sure what to do though. HSA championship has too many rounds to be practical. And I really live too far away. L7Club championship would be fun in a low-key kind of way, but again it's all a long way away. Currently pondering something rather different, but no plans as such yet... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry.h Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Mike, From what I hear HSA may reduce the number of rounds back to a more sensible level. They were meeting last week I think to discuss this issue. No doubt they will make an announcement at the annual lunch on the 14th November. Hope this entices you back - I can say this because I run in a different class from you *wink* 😬 Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Hope they're going to switch to List 1B tyres for kitcar classes too Didn't I mention my plan to build a minimalist non-roadgoing Hayabusa-engined Caterham for class A2 😬 Well it would be fun anyway... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Mike we would be delighted to see you in class 4 or 5 of the L7 championship in 2005. (Says me sitting in class 2 or 3 ) 😬 Glad to hear about the employment situation Edited by - Graham Perry on 29 Oct 2004 17:21:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Not forgetting the undoubted skill of our fellow '1A' users,I can't really see the point of running these more powerful cars on anything less than '32's'? That's my view! '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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