No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Right, I have two new ball joints in my hand! Before I dash outside and start tearing the front of the car apart, are there any wotchas and gotchas to changing these? My concerns are: 1. That the old ones won't just slide out once I have removed the retaining circlip. 2. That the new ones will need to be pressed in (difficult with the wishbone attached and the car on a jack maybe?). 3. The new ones seem quite "dry". I assume a little bearing grease won't go amiss? Anything else I should prepare for? Ta muchly for any hints and tips. Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Don't worry, just remove the circlip and they will fall out 😬 No grease they're self-lubing Paul Edited by - Paul McKenzie on 23 Jul 2004 14:14:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Splendid! Bit worried about the self lubing bit, I'll probably add a smidgen of grease anyway, the current ones have only done 45K miles. Mind you, they've outlived the top links and rod ends! Just off to fettle now! Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Guy What was your criteria for changing the old ones? i.e how did you determine they were too worn? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 23, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted July 23, 2004 Guy, As Paul says, no grease. By adding grease you give the abrasive crap something to to stick to, so that it stays there wearing the bits away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Simon They're not worn, just very stiff. I first suspected the steering rack so greased that profusely. When that didn't fix the stiff steering - it was a gradual increase in stiffness so I only really noticed when I was getting cross with myself for driving so jerkily - by a process of elimination I suspected the lower ball joints (the top links were changed not that long ago). I dropped some 3 in 1 into the ball joints and hey presto, free steering again (what a joy!). This was effective for a couple of days and then they went dry again. So, I've been tipping 3 in 1 into them for the last couple of months and have finally got around to getting some new ones! There is no play in the steering as such though. So, if you have play, suspect the top links (a good side to side shove of the front of the car will show this up) or the track rod ends (clonking when wiggling the steering wheel or manhandling the front wheels side to side will show this up). HTH Guy (who's really off to work on the car now!) NN 😳 Edited by - No Nuts on 23 Jul 2004 14:36:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Richard So, should I expect the life span of them to be about 40K miles? Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Get to work.....and I got them, not you and you've had them a month now *tongue* 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 23 Jul 2004 14:46:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Lordy, is it really a month already? Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Guy, That sounds very wierd to me 😳 I would have thought that your stiff steering was almost guaranteed to be due to the crap nylon thrust block in the steering rack...everyone gets this problem in time As Richard said you are creating problems by adding lubricants into the bearings..these are stainless balls inside a teflon self-lubricating casing. I can't see that bearing being the cause of excessive steering weight...are you sure the track roid ends aren't buggered? The only time I've seen the spherical bearings become knackered has been due to incorrect assembly of the upright into the spherical bearing without the little spacer...that shag's 'em big time 😳 Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 23, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted July 23, 2004 The only time I've seen the spherical bearings become knackered has been due to incorrect assembly of the upright into the spherical bearing without the little spacer... Paul, Spacers are only used on wide track cars, I belive. Guys car is narrow track, like mine, with no spacers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Right, well that was simply a complete cock up. 1. What spacer? I can't see where it can go? This means there has never been one on the car. Nothing was mentioned in the post build check, assuming this bit was checked. I quote from the build manual: "3.5 b) The front upright assemblies, which are marked left and right, slot into the spherical joint in the lower wishbone. ...(stuff about top ball joint)... c) The bottom of the upright is secured using a 1/2" nyloc nut which is tightened to 40 lbft. Check that the upright swivels freely when tightened." No mention of any spacer there. 2. I'm going to have to take the wishbones off anyway as I can't get sufficient access to thwack the ball joints out. 3. The current ball joints, sorry, spherical joints, were held in by single use spiral clips (for want of a better description), not circlips. Having tried to insert one of the new circlips in a vain attempt to put all back together the circlip now fouls the ball joint (the ball itself). 4. I've subsequently learned there are two depths of ball joint (hence the probable lack of spacers on my car). I hope to hell the new ones I've got will fit!! Fun and games, fun and games! Ta for all the help chaps. Guy NN 😳 Edited by - No Nuts on 23 Jul 2004 17:20:09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I think the spacer is only need on widetrack cars, mine never had one when it was narrowtrack, however the wide track kit came with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Aha! I reckon that once I get the wishbones off and the sphericals pressed out in the vice, and everything cleaned up nicely, it should all go back together OK. I hope! Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Oooh look, I turned over the page in the assembly guide and lo, spacers for wide track are mentioned. You never stop learning do you? 😬 Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I seem to remember that there are two types of sperical bearing retainers, one is a normal circlip and the other is a wire ring. You need the appropriate one for your wishbones. I got the wrong ones supplied with the bearings, the circlip ones, and they jammed the bearing so I reused the old wire ones and sealed the bearing into the wishbones for safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 What year is your car? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 Stewart. Damn, I have the wire(ish) rings. However, getting them out seems a fairly destructive process. I'll see if I can re-flatten the one I have removed. I was hoping the circlip fouling the ball was due to grot stopping it seating properly in the wishbone. So, does this mean the sphericals won't fit either? We'll see tomorrow. Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Guy, I'm getting petulant 😳 You haven't answered my question What year is your car , and also are you wide-track IIRC the spring type 'circlips' were just a crap replacement for 'real' circlips ans so shouldn't make any difference. IMHO the key is the year of your car and whether or not it has (should have) spacers between the bottom of the upright and the spherical joint. Help me to help you Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 23, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted July 23, 2004 Paul, I'll answer for him! Guys car is 2000 I think (maybe late 1999) narrow track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 I think the spericals will fit it's just the groove in the wishbone that's different. Circlip ones have a wider deeper groove than wire clip ones. When you try to locate a circlip into a wire clip groove it can't open out properly and so fouls the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alien Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bearing lock them in or they will move up and down and that's not good. Check them with the trunnion test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted July 24, 2004 Author Share Posted July 24, 2004 Hey hey Paul, sorry! Calm down! I've been fettling the car (so have not been on here) and also as your post immediately followed Stewart's I though the question was for him, hence I didn't answer in my next reply. Apologies for any confusion! My car is late 2000 (2001 Academy) so Richard was pretty much spot on. Narrow track. Whipping wishbones off is a real doddle (about a 15 minute job each way) so this is the easiest way to get at the bearings for me. I've managed to change the near side one but have had to use the original spring clip as the circlip did not fit snugly in the groove. I have a few spares so will try fettling them to make them fit but I don't have time right now (the 7 is my only roadworthy transport at the moment). Off side is a bit more of a problem as I can't get the bolt out of the bottom of the shock - I need a tougher 7/32 alan key, just off shopping now. So thanks everybody, especially Paul for your help. I can probably manage from here on in now I know what I'll find in there! 😬 Guy NN 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 No Nuts, Good luck...spoke with Richard today at Oulton to try and analyse the prob. further..still don't think the steering weight is anything to do with the sphericals....but could be wrong..wouldn't be the first (or last) time. Last night's petulance due to excessive alcohol exposure 😳 Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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