live axle, AVO damper setting advise

[YW Sin]

For 1996 classic chassis with 1.7 cross flow.

 

The road use dampers are from Freestyle and currently looking for an idea set up.

 

The ride hights are set up higher than usual and currently 14 clicks at the front and 7 at the back. This gives harder damper setting at the front but I wonder if this is the correct way.

 

Any experts can give good advises?

[caterhamnut]

Did you get the dampers from freestyle? If so, judging from the help and advice I have got from Len whilst discussing options, I would have thought that a quick call or email to them would be helpful. They know their system and set ups better than anyone else - I am sure they could help.

 

NEW Nurburgring Pictures posted

here

55,000miles in 2.5 years

[robbieclark]

I use 3 clicks at back and 2 at front on my live axle with the freestyle kit, but have freestyle adjustable anti roll bar at front.

[Graham Sewell]

I must be a bit of a wuss, I have full soft at the rear, 2 or 3 clicks at front and the ARB set soft. Knowing the freestyle setup, I am surprised that you like the dampers set so stiff.

 

Low tech luddite - xflow and proud!

[YW Sin]

My AVO dampers got max of 24 clicks!

 

So 14 and 7 clicks are not even half the max of its hardness.

[Graham Sewell]

From my understanding - which may be oversimplified - damping needs to be related to spring stiffness in order to achive critical damping (as opposed to over or under damping). As the same dampers are designed to cope with a variety of springs from soft road springs through medium trackday springs to stiff competition springs, I would have assumed that the lower click positions would deal with the road springs (and could easily go over damped) and the higher click positions would deal with the competition springs (and could easily go under damped).

 

As you specified that your car was for road use, I would therefore be more inclined to use lower settings. However, it is all a matter of personal preference and if you like a harsh ride then that is your choice. Handling and balance can be controlled in many ways including:

 

Ride height - probably most important to get right

Spring stiffness - difficult to change

ARB stiffness - easy if using the Freestyle ARB

Damper stiffness - easy if using the Freestyle AVOs.

 

As I say, it is personal preference as to how you like your car. And no two people will like the car with the same settings. However, re-reading your original posting, the qiuestion asked was, is it normal to have stiffer settings at the front. The answer in most cases is yes.

 

Low tech luddite - xflow and proud!

[Lennie]

Welcome to the fascinating world of customers and their own preference. We are constantly asked was the best settings and I can only say that the big formula one teams have all the telemetry and know more or less what the car is doing but they still send out the two cars different depending on the driver. My son has the nose absolutely planted and works on the theory that the rear follows, but he has the reactions of youth. I, on the other hand, have the car much more ‘loose’ but much more forgiving having the experience age and an increased survival instinct.

We set the dampers on our road track day set up so if they run on full soft on the road, the ride is compliant but the handling nice and neutral. On a track, where the surface is usually smooth, you can wind up the stiffness. The general rule is the stiffer the setting the quicker but more nervous the car will be. From experience we find track day cars run 3 to 9 clicks racers 6 to 15 clicks balanced front to back depending on preference and track grip. After saying that 'we recommend full soft on the road' I know of no customer who has not given in to temptation and ‘played’.

 

[Graham Sewell]

The God has spoken. Well said Len.

 

Low tech luddite - xflow and proud!

[YW Sin]

Thanks Len!

 

I think I should do a few click backs 😬

 

I have found the car sharper with harder settings but it came off the line a bit too quickly when provoked so softening the damper should be better for my own health’s' sake!

 

[Bilbo]

Hi Len

 

Well as you know I am a tad heavier (19 stone weakling 😬) than most and run harder settings road and track.

 

So I rather humbly think the load (read driver/passenger) comes into play. As you say so does driving style. Then again very different settings for say twisty Curborough and Snetterton with thoese long straights and sweeping bends.

 

One thing I am going to do this year IS take a notebook and write down the settings. Reason I can not remember the Snetterton ones... nor the MIRA ones ☹️

 

Road seem to have settled for 4 front 6 rear. Front ARB 1/3 rear 1/2. With the solid mounts its gentle on the 🙆🏻 if nothing else 😬

Curborough 6 front 8 rear varying the rear ARB wet or dry.

Cadwell 8 front 10 rear front ARB 1/2 rear 3/4

Snetterton err think I ended up 8 front and 12 rear front ARB 1/2 rear 3/4

MIRA still trying for something I like.

 

These, set this way, seems to give 4 wheeled drift to rear out and MY preference. NOW none of these may be correct but most importantly they keep me happy. In someways the setting that gives you the most confidence to your driving style helps. I like 4 wheel drift on long bends and rear out on tight ones most tracks have both so..... 🤔

 

Now others hate 4 wheel drifts..... I love them. 😬

 

Then again bike engined cars verses light K series verses BDR and heaviest frame need to be taken into account. Also the ratio of steering rack and how quick you can catch it when it goes or seat of the pants, do you know its just about to go 🤔. Think these days, I tend to stop at that point on the road. ☹️

 

Trackwise having a trailer in the car park a long way from home and a big wallet helps when going 10/10ths.

 

No sour grapes, I am not the fastest kid on the block anyway but enjoy all days on the track. Age syndrome, well I now drive a lot slower than 15 years ago, when I bought the car.... well sometimes. Proberly a lot slower than 10 years or before that...... one think I do know, safer than when I was 19.

 

As to the whole set up Len its GREAT something for everyone. Have to say I tried full soft and disliked it. Still as you VERY correctly say preference is everything.

 

As for everyone else, well try your own settings. One thing to remember is one quick lap does not make the best setting, few of us are that consistent. . Also the more you play the more you get. A few changes on a track day are best with constant weather and track conditions. If the latter are changing loads of alterations may be a waste of effort.

 

So YW Sin I hope some of this is of help. Proberly not but .............

 

So no expert here, then again few of us are..........

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

 

Edited by - Bilbo on 18 Feb 2004 20:07:31

[Bilbo]

Oh YW Sin

 

Just to add to your mines de-dion rear end and 6.5 x13 fronts 7.5 x 13 rears AO 32's

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

[YW Sin]

Hi Bilbo!

 

Thanks for the very insightful infos . Now I am certain for sure that I was running the car set too hard.

 

Had a close shave last weekend driving hard in a quite country side at midnight. I was trying to test the car after adding 7 clicks on both front and rear suspension.

Road was dry but cold and coming out of a round about at full throttle the whole rear end just came off brutally and caught me off guard. I have hit the road separator on left and the car drifted off the right scraping the right tire as well . Fortunately the only damage was slightly buckled front left wheel rim edge. The principal cause of that is my very, very hard Michelin tires and I have just ordered Yoko A021rs from George Polly, but also I am beginning to see that over hard suspension may have contributed too.

 

 

 

 

A ll standard, Classic 1.7 X-flow

 

 

[Bilbo]

Hi YW Sin

 

Well hope all is well after that.....

 

Personally I find just the odd 2 clicks make a big difference. Best start low work higher then go back and judge the differences. Then try some thing higher do the same again. Then again more front less rear think that was what Len was saying about his son. 🤔 Being heavy it works better the other way round for me.

 

Again I have to say I no expert others like hard front softer rear end. Think I might get flamed by Len in all of this ... opinions Len nothing like the horses mouth (How is life at the stud farm) 😬 😬 😬

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

[Lennie]

The horses all send you their best Bilbo, but the chickens said they are up for another race from the gate to the workshop the next time your down. And I would never flame you, we did actually allow for the extra ballast in the drivers seat I seem to remember. Just wait until your son starts to race then you know why the O.F. racing motto is the 'older we get the faster we were'

[Bilbo]

Hi Len

 

Yes you did allow for extra ballast in the .... err..... 🙆🏻 of the driver 😬. Oily Rags never going to be faster as I am force feeding him. 😬 😬 😬. I have also hidden the steering wheel

 

Very sadly I think the motto is half true ☹️ The other thing, well in my case, is I vaguely remember being very skinny.

 

Ps What is the 0-60 time of those chickens and you never commented on my utterings

 

( think I best avoid any welly boot comments and sheep)

 

'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬

1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension.

 

Edited by - Bilbo on 19 Feb 2004 14:37:12

[YW Sin]

Now my car is set up with softest mode front and rear, ie; no clicks.

 

But I am not sure if I like this, Having the ride hight set up high to avoid nasty speed bumps in the city, I find the car a bit too wobbly for my liking.

 

I think I will add up some more cliks to it.. maybe 5 or so, front and rear.

[se7enmad]

YW Sin,

what was wrong in the handling that you felt the need to change setting?

 

Find yourself a nice area of road which is not to busy and go up from zero 2 clicks at a go - mine is set between 6 to 8. Like that it does not wallow too much and has enough rear drift that I can control (and still enjoy)

Not that I am any expert mind you - I just have to try and change little things like that in the absence of proper funds to improve the roll I have, and with no experts on handling close by.

My 6-8 clicks is ok for the disaster of tarmac we have - I would think you'd need more than that.

 

Also keep in mind everybody's expectations of handling are different, so it will be yourself who will decide when the car is close to handling well.

 

Antonella

1998 Caterham Classic

my site here

more photos here

[YW Sin]

Hi Antonella,

 

I before the car was set upto 12 clicks at front and 7 at the rear and I had a nasty surprise though I liked the sharp handing so I came back to zero clicks to start all over again.

 

But mind you, I had rock hard Micheline tires at the time (now changed to yoko A021).

 

At zero clicks, i find my car just too supple for my taste but I am still not used to what the new Yokos can do and expecially where its limits can be.

[se7enmad]

Hi,

 

Nasty surprise as what? did the rear end break free?

my live axle car tends to bump steer - funnily enough it also rolls (obvious by the singeing of the tyrewall by the rear arches)

 

when I (tried to) complain I was told I should never hesitate and that maybe my absence of b"*"s is the problem.

so in the absence of people who understand I have limits I have to make the best of what I have

 

one day I will get some cheapo soft tyres for the front (instead of hard cpd acb10's) and lose the dreaded tramlining at the front - that will improve things a lot I feel

 

Antonella

1998 Caterham Classic

my site here

more photos here

[YW Sin]

Hi, you can find the description of my incidence earlier on in this thread 😬

 

I was lucky to escape with no damage to the car but it really was a bad surprise.

 

[Nigel Riches]

Hi Yong Wok how's things, not good on the braking and handling just now, I recall from an earlier post that your not happy with the braking on your car, and now you mention changing the suspension settings, with a fairly hard setting for the front, and softer for the rear, as the braking effect, particularly of the front wheels, is down to how well they remain in contact with the road surface, and a zillion other things, then by setting the shock absorbers to be hard may compromise their ability to control the increasing and decreasing loads on the suspension, given the usual state of the roads, and so your tyres may have been skipping across the bumps, rather than following the surface, thus decreasing traction, and also having the famous never wear out Michelin tyres, it's all a question of balance, and what suits your driving style, don't suggest you keep with that set-up which nearly took you of the road, unless you've got a shareholding in "Jockey", best regards Nigel in Noo Zillund.

 

1982. 5 speed, clamshells. B.R.G / Ali. The True Colours.

[YW Sin]

Hi nigelriches,

With new Yoko tires, I am expecting some radical transformation on brakinga and handing. It is just a shame that I can't find much time and good weather at the moment. I must also commit my self to take the car ( with a large tool box) to a track to really see what it can do.