Steveh7 Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Just wondered if anyone else here has done a number of track days on standard avons (as supplied to roadsports on 14"s) and their experience. Am I better to foresake one trackday this year and spend the money on an anti-cav tank or with the standard ungrippy tyres....will this not be a problem. Its an upgrade thats going to happen but I just fancy going round in circles first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveh7 Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Dooh! wish I could spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Stevo I'm doing the Brands novices day later this month without an Apollo . I'm working on the basis I'm running on Michelin pileups and my skill level isn't that high, so hopefully the engine will survive. And if it doesn't, it gives me the excuse to build a higher spec engine - and my wife can grumble but I will NEED a new engine then, so she can't say "what's wrong with it as it is" 😬 😬. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I'm wondering about the same thing... I specced R300 / R400 wheels and CR500s on my car, but no Apollo kit. Can't see this will be an issue on the road, but trackdays may be a different matter Guy See some pictures of the build here. Had my first drive on 19/12/03 at 17.10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Guy you definately need one with those tyres on track. I would get one for piece of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveh7 Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 I've had a look through some of the earlier posts and theres a fair few with anti-cav tanks experiencing high temp, low pressure etc. I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy the 7th Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Just a quick hijack do I need a catchtank for brands????????????? - see seperate thresd re catchtanks............ see you all there who's going rog C7 TNT (it's dynamite) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 3, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted February 3, 2004 If you're running a K-Series that vents the cam cover into the plenum (standard setup) then you don't need a catch tank. Throttle bodies, carbs etc would normally need a catch tank. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 You can do a trackday without an Apollo. If you want to protect your engine, don't rev it to it's absolute max on every gear. You can still have cavitation problems - even on Michelin Pile Ups (had this on my car). You will know if you have a problem because your car will suddenly start to sound like a tractor (usually after going around a right hander). You shouldn't damage your engine, but I would advise care to be taken. One car - 1400 Supersport with 6 gears and clamshell wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I've had a look through some of the earlier posts and theres a fair few with anti-cav tanks experiencing high temp, low pressure etc. I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. It's not the Apollo tank that causes this, it's an overfilled sump; the crank thrashes into the oil & the friction heats it up. This thins the oil causing the peripheral resistance in the bearings to drop hence the reduced oil pressure. Oil pressure is the product of the pump output & the peripheral resistance. The reduced pressure is not too much of a problem - as long as it doesn't go below 2 bar & for not too long. What is a problem is 2 bar pressure consisting of a frothy mix of oil & air. The Apollo tank is a good thing as it removes any air suspended in the thrashed oil. If you want an Apollo tank I'll have one to sell come Easter as I'm fitting a dry sump. Mick Edited by - Mick Day on 3 Feb 2004 23:13:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTD Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Yes - watch the for sale section as I'll be selling what is left over now my 1.6 EU3 K series Roadsport has been 'supersported' and dry sumped. I'll be collecting a box of leftovers from McMillan Motorsport on Saturday and putting them on blatchat next week - when I can see what I have got! G 4 Geoff I do not want a carbon fibre steering wheel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 vvc for the track ? Appolo is recommanded ? Sorry for this hi jack eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 vvc for the track ? Appolo is recommanded ? Sorry for this hi jack eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 For a VVC DEFINATELY! Those engines are very oil pressure sensitive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Mick and GTD What dry sump option have you gone for - Pace or Caterham? One reason I'm not fitting an Apollo at the moment is that I'm still weighing up whether to go the full hog and dry sump the engine.] Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTD Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I've gone for the Caterham dry sump. Largely because I race with the Mega Grads and need to stick to approved Caterham kit for eligibility purposes. Mind you I also got a (bizarrely) good deal from Demon Tweeks - their original 2004 catalogue had the old dry sump price, plus I get a 10 discount through BARC (I think it's through BARC - could be 750 Motor Club). I doubt you'd be able to repeat that one though! First time I've ever got a good deal in motorsport I think! G 4 Geoff I do not want a carbon fibre steering wheel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 My experiences: I have a VVC shod with Avons and when just after I bought it I did two laps of a roundabout quite quick (who doesn't?). The car didn't like it at all, and was running very roughly afterwards for a few minutes.. The salesman at Caterham South told me that it would be fine on track days etc!! A quick call to Dartford contradicted the salesman and that weekend I fitted an Apollo Tank to it. I've since done a track day with no issues at all. The tank was easy to fit, has never leaked, and probably well worth the money. - How can such a cute looking car sound so ferocious! - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Dave I'm looking at the Pace system: it's cheaper & engine doesn't have to come out. Dino The VVC is not "oil pressure sensitive" but the VVC mechanism is very sensitive to airated oil, as are hydraulic tappets. Mick Edited by - Mick Day on 4 Feb 2004 13:10:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 First time I did a sprint at Curborough I had the dreaded rattle from the hydraulic tappets as the oil aerated due to surge. Let the engine idle for 5 minutes or so and it will go away. I did three runs at Curborough with it getting worse every time. Fitted Apollo tank next weekend and problem went away. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Colin: That sounds like what happened to me before I got my Apollo. Will that do any lasting damage? - How can such a cute looking car sound so ferocious! - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 As I understand it, it should not do any damage if it was short term. But picking up air is not ideal, frothy oil or oil starvation is not too good for big end or main bearings, or anything else for that matter. I would not want it to be happening on a long bend. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Had the same happen at c'boro just before I was due to upgrade the engine. Tappets were surface damaged where they had taken a hammering. It is retrievable with use of fine wet & dry to return each tappet to a flat surface. Apollo is a must for track days, dry sump better if you can afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveh7 Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 Rollucks...I've just purchased an appollo tank, I thought I would bite the bullet and get it all done at the first service, makes sense in that they will be replacing the oil etc however makes no financial sense! Even worse the web of lies regarding cash, 7 and upgrades has already started with the Wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Stevo. I'm very sure you are not alone. My wife asked me last night if I was buying a kit by stealth, as a package has arrived every day recently. At least I was able to intercept the new spring/dampers this morning (thanks for quick delivery Freestyle) ❗ Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hells bells, I'm doing novice day at Brands later this month because I am a novice and I do not even know what an appollo/apollo/appolo tank is 😳. (Do not even know how to spell). From reading these postings I can understand what it does. Will be driving 1.6 VX 8 valve (very slowly) on Mitchelins. This is the excuse I wanted to trash the Mitchelins (I find them a little scarey) and then buy better. Do I need an appollo Where do I get one How much Can the wife fit it Can afford to trash tyres but not the engine AND I've got to get home. Flaps PS Thanks to the chaps and chapess at the Herts meet last night for making me very welcome. Didn't realise that 2 pubs in one evening were required. Good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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