tavender Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Have purchased a sprint/hillclimb caterham with 1700 xflow (Beattie tuned). Has twin 48's that makes it a difficult drive. Wish to make it more road driveable without losing too much at the top end for track days/ sprints etc. Is there a know option for fuel injection? Who are the recommend suppliers/fitters ? Had a quote of close to £3k for injection/electronic ignition conversion. Is this the going rate ? Other option is stay with carbs - are 40's or 45's the best option if I go this route. You may detect I am a complete novice on a steep learning curve. Thanks Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Raceline (01483 811978) have fitted injection to a xflow in the past. Injection is very good for improving driveability (& economy), particularly on more highly tuned engines. The Raceline price was probably not much more than half your quote so give them a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 NIck, I don't see how they can do throttle bodies, manifold, injectors, fuel lines, pump and a new fuel tank fro £1500! Personally I think the X-flow is probably not a good engine to either invest that amount of money on injection, or to run 48's on. Best get some smaller carbs with smaller chokes. Or maybe a Zetec? You can do that conversion for well under £2000 these days. The 2.0 litre works really well too. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavender Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Thanks. I'll give them a call. Don't wish to invest too much at this stage - I'll see what they quote and let you know. Currently believe the smaller carbs/chokes and change the cam is the way to go as an initial step unless the injection comes in at good value. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 A pair of 45s would certainly be much cheaper than injection. 48s never seem to work well on road cars - I think that Roger King once posted a reply that said that they have a different progression system to the 40s & 45s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Hi, I am going through a carbs to injection conversion at present and I would suggest it is a lot of effort and considerable cost. Benefits should include drivability and perhaps fuel consumption. Before investing in new tank, pump, pipes, fuel regulator, filter, TB's, mapping, might I suggest having a chat with Roger King. My 180 BHP x-flow with 45's had a 3 d map which was really fantastic and made the car drivable as well as very quick You will see by Rob G's efforts on the track that the engine is quick... 3d system fitted will be a small fraction of the cost of injection and will get you very close to injection type drivability ( albeit not in the Alps ! ) Anthony No engine, but 4 wheels, gearbox, diff and now Nitrons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 I second what Anthony says about 3D ignition mapping. I also ran a steel monster X-flow and found that it was quite undrivable at low rpms, ie mostly road use. But once fitted with 3D ignition it totally transformed the car! No longer was it spluttering at low rpm, and idle was a lot more stable. Certainly worth the money with small gains to be had with incrased fuel consumption too! On The Starting Blocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Definetly worth a chat with Roger King before doing anything, agree with Peter T and Anthony's comments. Fitting 3D management made a HUGE difference to my 244cam Xflow and now with Anthony's all steel 264 Xflow in the car it's amazingly tractable on the road. Oh yes and it's quite quick 😬 Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Agree with all of the above - mine has a Roger King supplied Alpha 3D system that makes my present car (45's with a 264 cam) drivable at low rpm. It also helps with MPG whilst cruising at part throttle. Ammazing differance compared to my old non 3D Xflow. Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavender Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Thanks for all the feedback. Anyone got Roger King's number/email. It would seem we need to talk... Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Engine Workshop Tel/Fax: 01992 421111 email info@rogerkingengines.com Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 See here http://freespace.virgin.net/seven.workshop/fordcrossflow.htm Or back to main index and look in 'more sites' On The Starting Blocks! Edited by - Peter T on 29 Apr 2003 12:27:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavender Posted April 29, 2003 Author Share Posted April 29, 2003 Spoke to Roger. Alpha 3D with twin 45's with appropriate cam is the recommendation. Looks as though I am heading this way. Thanks for all the feedback. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Great news, I am sure you will not be disappointed. The kit is straight forward to fit; however, I would strongly recommend that you ask Roger to put the car on the rollers and make sure set-up is interlocked with 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Definately do it. The 45's will be far more appropriate for your car and the 3D will make it feel far more modern, with a more refined and tractable bottom end of the rev range . Did mine 9 years ago and never looked back . Roger is also the master at carb set up and in my experience is reasonably priced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 You 'CAN' Do a full EFI conversion for around £150 if you know where to look and don't mind getting your hands dirty and a soldering iron out. Really just depends how you are inclined wrt DIY. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavender Posted May 1, 2003 Author Share Posted May 1, 2003 For those interested - a little more info on the beast I am trying to tame... It was a ex clubmans full competition engine prepared by John Beattie. Stell rods/crank, A8 cam, 48's as mentioned, fully balanced etc - expected to produce 185bhp and expected to be able to rev to 9500 . The engine was installe into a fully rose jointed chassis ready for hills/sprints ... The car is dry sump, quaiffe straigh cut box a LSD etc... Everything is adjustable as you can imagine so I have alot to learn. Whilst the engine is out I will look into suspension set-up - more advice would be required .... Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Wulfsberg Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hi! Will change to Emerald (possibility to change settings myself) 3D ignition on my X-flow with 45 Webers and go for the wasted spark solution. Where is the best place to buy crank timing wheel, timing sensor, throttle potentiometer and twin coils? Where is the best place to put the ECU (in the car)? Red/Ali - Live Axle - X-flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 Hi Jan, before you go for Emerald, please have a chat with Roger King, his kit ( based on Weber Alpha ) is designed to work x-flow. The kit is absolutely first class and has been fitted to many x-flow cars, which helps when it comes to fitting it yours, ie tried and tested mechanism for fitting. Hopefully thread will confirm Weber Alpha users who are happy with 3D. Worthwhile confirming rev limit you want so that kit can be set up for you I am sure you will find Roger exceptionally helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 tavender, I would recommend Roger also, as he built the engine that I have (an ex race car) which sounds similar (I've a kent 264 cam instead). Know his stuff. Rob now has Anthony's engine which is a similar spec, so you are another steel xflow owner - we have to stick together as people do stupid things like fit VX's or Zetec's, pah Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 I should be at Stonleigh on Saturday with my car E331 HPM It has a fuel injected Weber Alpha X-Flow. There are no ECUs that are "better" for x-flows than others - but there are specialists who are more familiar with the engine and one type of system. ie RogerK I personally miss the lack of user access of the Weber system - I would love to change the cold start settings on my car but I would have to take it to one of a handfull installers (who may or may not be familiar with the engine) and leave it over night for them to have one meaningful attempt at getting the mapping correct - untill the car is completely cold again - end of day? - overnight? If it was using an Emerald I could do the cold start / idle mapping myself. Jan On some of the other questions Throttle pot - buy from Weber / one of the other ECU suppliers - do Emerald have a special plug? Crank trigger - Depends which style your chosen ECU can read - mine being an old system has only four triggers with a double at TDC The main car manufacturers have a 30+ tooth wheel with one or two missing teeth at TDC You may be able to get a coil from a scrapyard - I think that fords use a twin coil double ended for wasted spark. My ecu is on the bulkhead in the passenger footwell - the coolest / dryest / least vibrating place is best. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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