eric Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 today on the Paul Ricard circuit, at low speed fortunately after a turn left and before a turn right under breaking the left trunnion broke Result : the car don't turn (go straight) with the lower wishbone on the ground So the car was out. and damaged only the trunnion (I hope) The car is 1989 Chassis (de dion rear) do you think it is possible to fit the new front suspension (without trunnion) and new anti roll bar linkage and the cost (for both sides of course) Many thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 Just a thing : the wheels were 15" with yoko A539 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Eric it may be possible. I have just fitted the latest spec narrow front suspension my 1990 car. You will need the new lower wishbones and the uprights. Wide track won't fit. I think the only potential problem is the front lower wishbone mounting. Caterhams told me that at around that time something changed in the spec of the chassis, and this determined if the front mounting would fit the new wishbones. Mine was okay. It might be worth giving them a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Not sure about the anti roll bar. I think a kit is available to do this as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hi Eric I fitted a new ( wide track ) spec front suspension to my 1990 car without any major issues, albeit that it had the second fitting to the upper suspension. This is not a major job as it bolts onto the ARB mounting and requires a small appeture in the side panel. The new lower wishbones are handed and it is essential to get them the right way up ie rose joint is on the bottom when fitted Good luck with the conversion Anthony No engine, but 4 wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Just out of interest, how do the new lower wishbones fit at the front? The old style have spigots and small bolts with two bushes, whilst the DD style fronts are similar to the rear with a pre-fitted bush and substantial bolt... Do you need chassis mods? Phil Waters You mean you can drive these? I thought it was just there to polish 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Phil, I think you are talking about what I mentioned above. My car had the DD type of Wishbone with the pushed in bush so the later kit fitted as it is exactly the same except for the bushes being thinner to allow for spacer washers to adjust the Caster. Not sure if the spigot type can be modified so that the later wishbones will fit. Caterham told me not, but I wouldn't think its impossible, just inconvenient. Does anyone know when Caterham stopped fitting the older mounting as this may help Eric ? Edited by - Graham Perry on 22 Apr 2003 13:48:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bare Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Trunnion Failure?? Exactly what broke? The Brass trunnion.. which part of it? and was it due to some casting flaw or to a total lack of lubricant/bush maintenance over the years? You realize the the "new and Improved" setup consists of the same upright with out the threading of the fomer Trunion mount..with the Trunnion simply replaced by a Rose Joint.. and that that particular Rose Joint ..wears out.. at a rate orders of Magnitude quicker than the Venerable trunnion... these are pricey as well, just to add insult to injury. Be carefull what you wish for... New ain't always Better bare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 My 1989 Chassis has concerning the front wisbone smaller bolt (1/2) than rear So conversion to wide track seems not to be easy, modification of the insert required. Standart track new kit avalaible from Caterham new uprights (no trunnion) 4 wishbones 4 bilstein shocks and springs front and rear anti roll bar It seems to convert the car to 1994 suspension Your thinking about that could help me Concerning the failure : the trunnion was regularly oiled EP 90 (I am not the first owner of the car, so may be it experienced a difficult life before me) The grey part broke just under 2 or 3 threads, the trunnion itself seems like new. On open road I would be killed By now, trunnion or not, the question still opened as some people tell me the new system is not safer eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blighty Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 without wishing to sound stupid (it may be too late already) what exactly is the correct way to care for/service my old trunnions, with my morris 1000 grease seems to be all that is needed , do I take it this is not the case with my Seven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bare Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Ahh... so if I understand correctly the "stub" (for lack of a better term) onna upright snapped ? !! That is indeed frightening and unfortunate.. especially so as the Upright is a Forging.. these should NOT break under any circumstance. Trunnion has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Current Uprights are simply the same part with out the 'threading' on the lower "stub".. no safer in any way shape or form. But then there should never be a problem with the uprights.. you were indeed unlucky.. or perhaps an earlier unrevealed accident had damaged the thing prior to your knowledge. At least you clarified the problem, personally I find the 'older' trunnion setup far more foolproof than the current system, and I would not seriously consider 'upgrading' mine under any concievable circumstance ;-) bare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Hi Bare The stub axle is the same on both suspension set ups and no doubt goes back to being part of the Herald upright. Suggest as a minimum that both stubs are replaced. It might be worth crack testing the upright given potential impact from stub axle failure. Anthony No engine, but 4 wheels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 If someone is interested I can send an e-mail to show the point of failure eric @ bonzai.fr If it can help ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Rich_Bernie Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Blighty The front trunnions need to be oiled with 90 grade oil (diff oil). Fill up a grease gun with it, and pump in through the grease nipple until clean oil runs out of the seal at the top. Worth doing regularly - every 1500miles or so. Grease isn't the thing to use on these. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Blighty, Jonathan is abs. right. EP90 is the stuff, as per Triumph manual. Grease won't hurt it, what causes trouble is the things running dry which causes the brass threads to wear. Then either the threads pop out or the brass snaps in extreme cases. The upright breaking as in Eric's car is fortunately very rare, the whole point being that the brass wears out first as it is softer than the steel upright. If you now change to EP90 you will just get a mixture of grease and oil which will be OK. Just pump a bit in every week or so if you want to ensure that the mixture gets diluted. I really wouldn't worry too much though as a lot of mechanics in the 60s and 70s changed to grease because it didn't wash out and was more tolerant of neglect... Finally, grease will disguise slight wear better than oil. This may be OK for an old Herald, less so for a 7! There really is nowt wrong with trunnions though, provided they are regularly greased or oiled and replaced when they wear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 both old and new uprights are machined from the same forging , the difference being the new ones have a plain shaft without the thread or the grease hole through the middle. The bearing diameter is smaller but as it doesnt have the grease hole in the centre or the stress raisers at the thread roots they are considerably stronger. I modified my 1987 chassis to the new set up and remachined the old uprights to the new pattern, these are now "weaker" as a consequence because of the grease hole. They have however held up through 3 race seasons without incident. My lower wishbone front mounting had a protruding stub with internal 5/16 unf thread. A bit of mucking around with Y9 and Y16 bushes soon solved the problem. the upper link was a standard upgrade part which is bolted to the rear of the anti-roll bar mounting with longer bolts and necessitates a carefully cut hole one each side panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterS Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Having had two trunnion failures, one at about 70 mph, it can be very difficult to determine exactly what went first in the incident. This is because the wheel thrashes around, the bottom of the stub axle scrapes along the tarmac, and all this before you come to rest. A****star looked at my trunnions after my second (higher speed) incident, and came to the conclusion that it had been kept well-oiled. This meant that I didn't know what the failure mechanism was, and didn't know what to do about it. The only conclusion I came to was to practice preventive maintenance every couple of years, by replacing the trunnions, and cross all fingers and toes. We now have a more modern Seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bare Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 A more "modern" seven ?? That's a bit of a stretch :-) Trunnions are/have been fitted to 90% of all sevens and tens if not hundreds of thousands of Triumphs.. without any genuine problem trends emerging. Balljoints; a more popular almost universal design solution can not in truth claim a better record. F1 cars use rose joints exclusively, these .. all.. require replacing after each race. Even so, some joints fail in use... and these are the finest available and should be given the starting price of 40 ukp each . More precise? certainly.. More durable/maintenance free? not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 The first explaination I get are : 1) a stress on the upright (accident unknown before, pothole...) 2) the hole for lubrification is a point which made the upright weaker you can add that the car was made 13 years ago ... If it can help Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 The Trunnions were a weakness on the old Triumph Herald as well. Just discussed this with my father who did MOT's for 30 years. He said they were a regular failure item on the test. He towed a couple of cars out of ditches over the years as well where the trunnion had failed. Apparently Morris 1000's had a similar mechanism that could be troublesom as well Edited by - Graham Perry on 23 Apr 2003 19:15:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Super Sprint Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Jr, Do you have any photos of the upgrade as Caterham have told me the upgrade won't fit? My chassis has the spigot like you described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Asking a question about a post from 15 years ago !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Super Sprint Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Censored - no call for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Super Sprint Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Censored - no call for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterham Super Sprint Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Censored - no call for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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