Front lower wishbone spherical joint circlip size and supplier?

[john milner]

2003 SV.

The spherical joints on my front lower wishbones recently had an MOT advisory. Car on stands with a lever under the wheel causes the upright to move upwards about 1-2mm within the joint. The ball appears to be reasonably solid on the bolt so the ball is moving within its race(?). Also on close inspection some material is coming out which looks a lot like PTFE tape.

I need new joints. Caterham are expensive, Oakmere a little better and Merlin are relatively good for prices. My main problem is that I am not sure about circlips. The originals have been in place for over 20 years and 82,000 miles so may well disintegrate or permanently deform on removal so I would like a fresh set to hand.

1/ Which type of circlip is best. I have read that one type does not fit that well. Key ring or plier type? Best to get both just in case?

2/ What is the circlip size?

3/ Any other suppliers? McGill do some very, very cheap joints (I'm guessing these are racers disposable items and not designed to last for years). Shaw URL is broken so I guess they have gone. Merlin do not list circlips.

4/ I have read about a spacer washer. As the car is an SV I assume the washer is essential. If I have one it may be time to replace. What size is it?

5/ Nyloc nuts. What size are they or can I reuse?

6/ I have also seen Loctite mentioned to hold the joint in the wishbone. Is this red/blue threadlock cement?

 

Edited February 6 by john milner

[Tazio]

Try Chris Mintoft at Redline Components, he supplied mine, in fact I've just found them (bearings and circlips) in my spares drawer,  as the 7's have gone I'll never use them .

 

Edited February 6 by Tazio

[Wrightpayne]

1) mine doesnt have circlips, they are like a flat keyring - just get from redline or caterham. I got spares but with two pairs of reading glasses on and the car well supported I was able to extricate them with two small flat bladed screwdrivers.

The part number of the joint will show they’re quite widely available from bearing suppliers.

4) when fitting widetrack suspension to an S3 car an 8mm spacer is needed on the vertical link before inserting into the spherical joint. At some point the design of the vertical links was changed and had a longer threaded portion.

The S5 chassis came with widetrack suspension as standard but I dont know if it needed the spacer. Its just a piece of steel tube and visible if fitted. Perhaps check the build manual for the SV chassis?

 

5) depends. The early vertical link with narrow suspension and later vertical link (any width suspension) uses a full nyloc nut. Early vertical link with widetrack and spacer uses a special turned down nyloc nut so that the spherical bearing is properly supported as the spacer pushes it off the end of the machined stub on the bottom of the vertical link. Thread is 1/2” UNF.

(I dont know about the current radial calliper type vertical link)

6) I used some basic thread lock as much to keep moisture out as lock the bearing in  place.

 

I’ve changed both of mine in situ and found some threaded rod, selection of beefy washers and sockets are brilliant for removal of the old one. 

[Wrightpayne]

Here are a couple of pics. I changed my vertical links for the later type with longer threaded portion. Forgot they needed a tophat spacer too, between the nut and spherical joint, as mentioned already, to properly support the bearing due to the 8mm spacer.

Edited February 6 by Wrightpayne

[SM25T]

Spherical bearing ABWT10

[Geoff Brown]

Don't forget bearing lock as the new bearings can be slightly loose in the wishbone housing.

[john milner]

I think that there are various bearing lock adhesives. Loctite 6xx seems to be popular. Not sure which of the 6xx series is the right one though.

[john milner]

My uprights do not have the exposed spacer in the photos above which makes the nyloc nuts too recessed for a regular socket. I am getting a a deepset 3/4" socket which should do the job. Am I correct in thinking that the bolt on the bottom of my uprights is probably too short to use a newer type spacer?

I didn't build the car but the build manual I do have says that a 8mm spacer is to be used. At just 8mm it is possible that I have spacers but will not see them until I have pulled everything apart.

[Wrightpayne]

Its not clear in the picture but this is the 8mm spacer circled - it sits on top of the spherical bearing. If you’re unsure just post a similar picture and I should be able to advise. Also a picture of the nyloc and I’ll tell you what type needed.

Ian

[john milner]

I am not sure what the spacer is within the circle. Mine looks like the upright bolt going straight through a bearing ball. Underneath the nut is recessed in the wishbone but I can feel the dome of a nyloc nut.

[Geoff Brown]

The 8mm top hat spacer is a modification for wide track suspension. It sits above the spherical bearing.

The half inch nyloc to quote CC is 'a special turned down nyloc nut'. I am sure that Redline will have stock. 

My car is a 2012 model & there is no lower spacer between nut & upright.

 

 

Edited February 9 by Geoff Brown

[paul richards]

“mine doesnt have circlips, they are like a flat keyring” 

They are called Sprirolox retaining springs. 

[Englishmaninwales]

1 hour ago, Geoff Brown said:

The 8mm top hat spacer is a modification for wide track suspension. It sits above the spherical bearing.

The half inch nyloc to quote CC is 'a special turned down nyloc nut'. I am sure that Redline will have stock. 

My car is a 2012 model & there is no lower spacer between nut & upright.

 

 

CC have modified this arrangement (wide track only) under the spherical bearing. The special turned down nyloc is deleted, replaced by a top hat spacer (3ACZ0019C) and plain 1/2” UNF half nyloc (NFH1/2).

I understand this is to move the nyloc downwards to reduce the risk for the nyloc contacting the rim of the recess for the spherical bearing on full suspension droop. But note, earlier uprights do not have sufficient thread to accommodate this set up, so starts to get expensive if one needs to replace the upright.

Malcolm

Edit - Apologies - I see this was covered in an earlier post!

 

Edited February 9 by Englishmaninwales

[Englishmaninwales]

On 06/02/2024 at 19:31, SM25T said:

Spherical bearing ABWT10

ABWT 10-EU PTFE Lined Stainless Steel Spherical plain bearing 5/8 x 1-3/16 x 3/4 x 9/16 inch from www.simplybearings.co.uk @£32.30 +VAT. (Or  Caterham £44.93 + VAT)

[Wrightpayne]

Is that better? I’d take the lower nut off and see what you’ve got.

[Rich Goddard]

On 08/02/2024 at 12:32, Wrightpayne said:

Its not clear in the picture but this is the 8mm spacer circled - it sits on top of the spherical bearing. If you’re unsure just post a similar picture and I should be able to advise. Also a picture of the nyloc and I’ll tell you what type needed.

Ian

If you don’t mind me saying Sir, your balls looking a little dry there….looks uncomfortable 😉. Someone once told me to oil my lower balls with no more than 1 or 2 drops every month. 

[Wrightpayne]

Hmm - the other school of thought is that oil will attract grit / dust to stick and wear the joint prematurely. I’ve never oiled my spherical bits - widetrack is circa 20 years old and on their 2nd bearing.

The bearings are PTFE lined so slippy stuff in there anyway. 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Also, best not to lubricate PTFE lined bearings, manufacturers typically say that any additional lubrication can negatively affect the PTFE liner properties and bearing operation.

[Rich Goddard]

Thank you, every day’s a school day!   I live and learn….including not to listen to every word a self proclaimed experienced mechanic tells me.

[SLR No.77]

The bearings work fine without lubrication but do eventually start to get tight, although it can take some time.

When they do become tight though it’ll be very noticeable through the steering, this can be alleviated by periodically adding a drop or two of oil to the lower bearing making everything run smooth again. The theoretical and the practical may be somewhat different.

If the bearing can allow oil in it can also allow moisture in which is likely the cause of the tightness appearing. Adding oil can delay the need to replace the bearings thereby extending the life, my car is at that stage so I add oil and have been doing so for a while, and the bearings are still “tight”.  I have new bearings which I need to fit but too many higher priority jobs to do!

Stu.

[john milner]

I did not understand where the spacer was located. Thank you for the information above. I think I have got it.

As for bearing suppliers I have now got a set from Autosport Bearings & Components. They were about half the price of Caterham and delivered in 24 hours at standard first class postage rates.

Undoing the lower nut is causing more hassle than I realised. I think I am going to have to pop the top joint to get the correct angle on the lower nut for a socket to fit in the recess.

[John Vine]

12 hours ago, aerobod - near CYYC said:

Also, best not to lubricate PTFE lined bearings, manufacturers typically say that any additional lubrication can negatively affect the PTFE liner properties and bearing operation.

Quaife say the same about their Quickshift gear lever.

JV

[Geoff Brown]

3 hours ago, john milner said:

I did not understand where the spacer was located. Thank you for the information above. I think I have got it.

As for bearing suppliers I have now got a set from Autosport Bearings & Components. They were about half the price of Caterham and delivered in 24 hours at standard first class postage rates.

Undoing the lower nut is causing more hassle than I realised. I think I am going to have to pop the top joint to get the correct angle on the lower nut for a socket to fit in the recess.

Jack the suspension up slightly to reduce the angle

[john milner]

2 hours ago, Geoff Brown said:

Jack the suspension up slightly to reduce the angle

The car is on axle stands. I jacked up the lower wishbone and that was enough to straighten things out.

One side off now. The new bearing was too tight due to what was probably a few drops of bearing lock so cleaned up with a wire brush attachment on a Dremel.

The nyloc nut is not a regular nut as it is about half height with a spacer thingy attached.

Circlip is the key ring type. Quite easy to get out thanks to a small indent on the wishbone although the circlip is now partly unwound (semi-mullered but reusable).

[paul richards]

11 hours ago, SLR No.77 said:

The bearings work fine without lubrication but do eventually start to get tight, although it can take some time.

When they do become tight though it’ll be very noticeable through the steering, this can be alleviated by periodically adding a drop or two of oil to the lower bearing making everything run smooth again. The theoretical and the practical may be somewhat different.

Adding oil can delay the need to replace the bearings thereby extending the life.

That’s also my experience. You need the tiniest amount of oil as you don’t want it to contaminate the brake disc.