K series VVC big valve head

[Neil220]

Will a VVC big valve head from a 1.8 K series fit on my 1.6 Supersport?

[2] If so, is there any benefit?

Would it improve the performance?

[oilyhands]

It will physically bolt on but there will be a number of issues to contend with depending on

i) whether you want to retain the VVC system or not

ii) whether the engine is EU2 (distributor cap) or EU3 (plug top coils)

iii) whether you will be pushing the engine above 160BHP/7200

iv) whether your engine has a manual or automatic tensioner.

If you can respond on those questions I can give you chapter and verse.

Oily

[Neil220]

Many thanks for your offer of advice.

1. I'm looking at buying just a cylinder head, I don't know what else  the VVC system is?

2. Unfortunately my car is 1996 and EU2

3. It's a standard 1.6 Supersport, non CAT, with vernier cams and and some " special exhaust " about 140BHP I  believe so unlikely to get above 160BHP?

4. Sorry, I  have no idea !

[oilyhands]

Your engine is an EU2 so it has a manual tensioner.

You will need a new inlet cam with larger journals, a VVC blanking kit, modification to the cambelt rear cover, a drill and tap under the exhaust cam nacelle, modifications to the rear blank kit to accommodate the distributor cap, a rotor arm spigot, new leads for the taller head and some modifications to the plenum to match the inlet ports.

If you have solid followers you will need to swap over the valve spring caps and re-shim the followers. If your followers are hydraulic then you can use the VVC followers which are superior.

I'd say around 160BHP would be about right but the stock ECU *may* struggle with the fuelling a little.

Make sure the VVC head is viable, a hardness test is compulsory.

Dave

[Neil220]

Thank you very much for your comprehensive advice.

The head is £300  and the cam and blanking kit £500, so with the other bits plus the modifications I'm guessing £1,000+

I have the risk of buying the head and it not being sound but also the possibility as you mentioned of the Rover ECU not coping well.

I think I'll look into (again) a Kmaps ECU conversion which is a similar cost.

Thanks again for taking the time and trouble to respond!

[simon_h]

Kmaps ecu mods are for the eu3 unit, different wiring and plug top coils. You'd be better off getting an aftermarket ecu and going that way. 

[Neil220]

#6

 I spoke originally with Karl from Emerald who advised that there would be little to gain without modifications to the head, race cams and throttle bodies.

Kmaps did say theirs could be fitted but would need a new engine harness, sensors, injectors and coil packs.

Estimated around £1,000  with about 10% increase in power and better throttle response.

Are you aware of an aftermarket ECU that would give a worthwhile power gain on a standard Supersport engine (apart from vernier pulleys)?

[simon_h]

There's nothing to be had just fitting an ecu. They are selling something so obviously they have to say it makes a bit more power. You will need to fit all the eu3 stuff to make it work and I wouldn't think it worthwhile. The vvc head, cams etc make fitting a programmable unit worth doing. I wouldn't run it on a standard ecu personally 

[Neil220]

#8

Thanks for your advice!

As a thought, my car is running a MEMS 1.9 ECU originally developed in the late 80s and modified in 1994.

Isn't it quite possible that 30 years later, technology has advanced to a stage where a 10%  power increase and better drivability is quite feasible with better mapping and a modern processor in a new ECU?

[oilyhands]

I dont think you will see a 10% increase from a remap. However using an aftermarket ECU that doesn't use manifold pressure to assess load will allow the cam timing to be made more aggressive which could improve things significantly.

With the VVC head you could choose a hotter inlet cam which might well improve things further.

Oily

[simon_h]

#9 no it doesn't work like that. The advances have been about emissions and control of things, spark and fuel if sent to the correct hole will only make as power as the engine can. Changes in the engine mechanical spec will give you more power and torque. The head, cams and then calibration to suit will give you more. The oe cal will be safe for the life of the engine and keep exhaust temperatures under control. The little extra the aftermarket find are by going beyond these safe limits but generally you'll find the odd percent here and there as it's tuned to the particular engine. 

[Neil220]

#9 #10

Thanks both for your time and information. 

Much appreciated 

[David Brown]

Oilyhands, Dave Andrew's, (DVA) is the go to person on the k series. Check out his website DVApower if you haven't already. 

[SLR No.77]

IMHO, if budget is limited spend on a good handling setup before looking for more power, it'll give you more smiles per £ spent than chasing high power.

[Neil220]

#14

Thanks, I had come to that conclusion!

I've purchased adjustable spring/shocks to fit over winter and living near to Northampton plan to visit to Northampton Motorsport for a flat floor set up.

[DirtBuddha]

Why not just find a lowish mileage 1.8 K Series engine and swap it out?  

 

That would be a lot easier than trying to mate a bunch of incompatible components...

[Neil220]

#16

My car is 1.6 Supersport non Cat with 138BHP.

I think the 1.8 version is 142BHP? so not worth the money and effort, I'd need a later (EU3) 1.8 VVC complete engine with injectors, sensors, coil packs ECU, harness etc.

I'm new to Caterhams,  how much would something like that cost?

[Wilts North AR]

Previous car was a 2000 1.6K Supersport with 135 ish BHP. Took it to 'Oily' for verniers, Jenveys, Emerald ECU & plenum type air intake. Retained the Supersport cam shaft.

'Oily' estimated about 155bhp from this upgrade. Took it to emerald for RR set up & surprise the engine was pushing out 158bhp.

At the time the upgrade was less than £3000.  Better than changing engines or heads???

 

 

[Neil220]

#18

Thanks for your information. 

My car being 1996 has the level 1.9 MEMS ECU.

Your 2000 car would have had MEMS 3 or possibly 2.

Either way I believe it's a fairly straightforward upgrade for you to change to Jenveys and the Emerald ECU

I think, from what I've been told (I'm certainly far from being knowledgable) that me having the earlier (non reprogramble) ECU unfortunately means it's far more complicated and expensive to go the same route as yourself.

I would if I  could!

[simon_h]

As far as I'm aware the emerald will plug in where the mems 1.9 was and work with no changes. It's actually harder to fit it when it's a mems 3 setup as it's then not plug compatible. 

[Geoff Brown]

#19 - From memory my original ECU was MEMS 2. The Emerald ECU was 'plug & play'.

Surely Emerald supply a suitable ECU or is there a loom plug adapter available?

[oilyhands]

The Emerald ECU plugs straight in to EU1(mems1.9) and EU2(Mems 2) looms, on EU3 engines they can supply a plug and play adapter or you can hardwire.

Oily

[psarfas]

Not sure if this helps, but I have seen SAWSTUNING website stating that they can tune the 'locked' MEMS 1.9 and 2J.

[Geoff Brown]

Neil220 - So 'oily' confirmed my statements in his post #22 that my statements in #21 are correct. So there is a path to tuning your 1.6 without all the head or engine swap problems.

Trust me, 158bhp from the mods I had is enough to make a 1.6K Supersport go well. Third gear is a joy to behold almost all the way to the limiter! More than 160bhp & the engine is liable to melt down. 

Still confused as in #3 you stated EU 2 but in #9 1.9. Whichever there is still a solution.

[simon_h]

Eu2 standard engine is mems 1.9, single black socket. The eu2 vvc is mems 2j. Same plugs but 2 of them, one red and one black. Mems 3 completely different plugs and design