Duratec sump sealant

[Jeff210R]

Hi Guys

What't the best sealant to use on my Duratec sump? 5000 miles and the bloody thing's seeping under the timing cover!

Jeff

[Molecular--Bob]

Can this be fixed in car, or is it engine crane time? Mine is doing the same so will keep an eye here for the answer. 

 

[Jeff210R]

It looks like it can be done in the car Bob. See link below. Just the usual clearance problems if you don't (who does!) have the luxury of a lift. I'm debating whether to bite the bullet and pay a man who does!  But I begrudge a few hrs labour costs for what is in essence a simple if awkward job.

https://www.lotus7.club/guides/maintenance/duratec-r400-how-remove-and-replace-wet-sump

[Jeff210R]

In fact I'm wondering if since the seepage is only coming from one corner and definitely at the front where the offside corner timing cover bolt is; could I get away with just loosening the front four timing cover bolts and squirting some sealant along the front edge and retightening? Thus avoiding having to drop the whole sump!

[ScottR400D]

My experience having the sump off a sigma would lead me to thinking you won't get away with that suggestion. 

I believe the RMS of the Duratec is similar to the Sigma and the sump butts up against a rubber face on that which could be easily disturbed if you loosen the sump. 

In addition, the engine I worked on had the sump fitted using a pretty solid sealant (ex factory). It took a fair bit of prising from the block and cleaning off the two faces. 

We refitted using Threebond 1184 which worked well. 

I would have thought it wouldn't be too difficult to remove and replace in situ if you can get decent height under the car. 

Remember, if there are any blind sump bolt holes in the block make up some short studs to put in them when refitting, they make a great guide for the sump and prevent sealant getting in and being compressed by the bolts  

[7 wonders of the world]

Loctite 5910 is a good RTV,  £12-!5 for a small tube or just under £30 for a sealant gun tube, DT and Bearings online are good places to look for the later.

And although tight you can get the sump off in situ, use an old 1" wood chisel to start you off ISTR theres a recess in the sump to permit this toward the bellhousing.

Before you commit to taking it off are you sure of the source of the leak and it not running around the joint form somewhere else..?

[Jeff210R]

Sorry; RMS? I feared there wouldn't be a shortcut. It's just I find jobs lying under the car never go to plan!

[Jeff210R]

99.9% sure it's the sump so called gasket!

[John Vine]

99.9% sure it's the sump so called gasket!

There isn't a gasket, but rather a bead of sealant.  The guide you refer to in #3 should give you all the info you need to drop and replace the sump (if that's what, in the end, you need to do).  Yes, the sump can be removed and replaced in situ, provided you can get sufficient working clearance under the car.  It's not difficult, but the key is to clean off all old sealant thoroughly and to apply the new sealant thinly and evenly.  I used the standard Ford RTV sealant, part no. 1217470.

Re #4: I also doubt whether that would work.  The gap between the sump and the timing cover is tiny, and you'd have little chance of injecting sealant into the gap.  Loosening the timing cover would very probably affect the integrity of the remaining seal around the adjacent surfaces. Bear in mind that, at that point, the sump requires two good seals at 90 deg to each other: the timing cover and the block itself.

JV 

[7 wonders of the world]

The sealer should be applied in a single bead in the correct place, there are key areas to pay attention to around the rear main seal etc.

If you need a copy of the Duratec manual which details this BM me and email address and I can send it over for you.

Remember of your thinking of just taking the timing cover off you need to retime the engine as the crank pulley is on friction washers.

[ScottR400D]

#7 The RMS is the Rear Main Seal of the crankshaft.

I believe the Duratec is like the Sigma, where the seal is embedded in a steel plate which bolts on to the back of the block. 

The base of that steel plate has a rubber element which seals, with sealant, against the sump.

[ScottR400D]

[ScottR400D]

As 7 wonders has said the sump seals against the RMS and needs special consideration.

[ScottR400D]

This image is from an old thread and is a dry sump (not sure if wet or dry on this thread) but it shows how the RMS sits on the sump. 
 

 

[Jeff210R]

Not sure what BM is but your offer of Duratec manual much appreciated!

jeffhallifax@gmail.com

[ScottR400D]

BM is BlatMail........ You'll get used to all the acronyms Jeff, it's like on 'Line of Duty' only there are no bent coppers on here........

......as far as I know!

[Rob Walker]

If you drain the oil out of the engine, degrease the affected area with brake cleaner, scratch out the gasket line with a stanley craft blade and then apply a bead of the Ford Sump Sealant or a good quality RTV . Leave it to cure for a couple of days the leak will be cured.  I have had this problem several times and the leak has never re occured.

 

[Englishmaninwales]

Buy plastic gasket scraper; I prefer to avoid metal blades on aluminium flanges, as they are easily damaged. You'll find carb cleaner will dissolve both RTV and anaerobic flange sealants, prior to scraping.

Malcolm

[John Vine]

As I understood it, Rob W was suggesting (#17) leaving the sump and timing cover in situ but digging out the sealant from the joint.  Is that right, or have I misunderstood something?

IME, the sealant film at that point is very thin, so I was surprised that enough could be removed to allow sufficient refilling.

JV 

[Rob Walker]

John you are correct.  Leave the sump and timing cover bolted in place and run the point of the craft or stanley knife along the joint remove about 1mm deep of sealant, then clean the area with BRAKE cleaner and a tooth brush.  When dry apply a bead of sealant along and over the joint, 3mm thickness will suffice, leave to cure for a couple of days before refilling the sump with oil.  I have done this several times and permanently cured the leak.  The Ford Sump Sealant is the best stuff to use.