Williams Charity Track Day

[GulfSeven]

For anyone else who didn't book either L7C track day at Castle Combe before it sold out, Williams is holding their Charity Track Day there on July 27th. They were just finalising this yesterday when I took my 310R in for its first annual service. It's open pit lane and the same on-track rules as L7C as far as I can tell. You will have to pay a bit more and also share the track with Morgan and Lotus as a punishment for not booking the L7C days in time though 

I booked today, so if anyone else decides to go please feel free to come and say hello 

[Graham Hutton]

Brilliant! Many thanks for sharing. I'm going to book.

[7Up]

I just signed up.

 

[GulfSeven]

Just a quick note about insurance.

I noticed that my policy with Adrian Flux states:

We only provide cover if the event is organised by a registered motoring club, a motor manufacturer, a member of the Association of Track Day Organisers (ATDO) or a motoring magazine

Having clarified this with them, I now have it in writing that they consider the day run by recognised organisaton.

[7Up]

Tim,

Thanks for this. Classic line have refused so far because the event is neither ATDO or an actual ARDS session. Highly frustrating. 

[GulfSeven]

I assumed (wrongly) that all clubs and circuits would be ATDO members, but it seems not. L7C and LOT aren't. The ATDO website doesn't even seem to be maintained anymore: https://www.atdo.co.uk/

[GulfSeven]

I had a similar issue with Henderson Taylor who used to insure my Elise. They had a list of specific clubs and circuits that were covered. LOT and Castle Combe weren't on it so I had to get it in writing that they were covered too.

[L7 FST]

On my A-plan policy (including track days), any event at Castle Combe is specifically excluded.   Apparently a high proportion of all track day accident claims in the UK relate to incidents at Quarry (the right hander just after half left at the end of the main straight).   I don't know whether to believe that, but the policy exclusion is definitely real!

 

Stephen  

[GulfSeven]

I didn't know A-Plan specifically excluded Castle Combe.

I guess I won't be going with them then as it's my local circuit 

[z7]

I'm surprised to hear L7C and LOT aren't ATDO members.  I'm sure they used to be.

I just came across Trackday Insurance (third party cover) Benefit we have as members.  I didn't know that.  A nice benefit.

[CarlieHowden]

Couple of things :) Castle combe previously wasn't covered and yes a large number of the claims in the UK were on Quarry corner... A-Plan now insure Castle Combe.

[CarlieHowden]

And ATDO is effectively defunct - their website hasn’t been updated since 2013, and currently is down. ATDO is not a must.

We need to make sure any track day is officially controlled with safety briefings, stewarded entry to track (not too many cars on track at any one time) and stewards monitoring track behaviour (not overtaking on corners etc). If the club or the track confirms this then we should be able to insure. Usually clubs will use the set up of the track itself for this. Airfields etc without this will not be covered.

 

Hope that helps clear things up

[Shortshift]

"I just came across Trackday Insurance (third party cover) Benefit we have as members.  I didn't know that.  A nice benefit. "

It is, indeed.  Possibly unique, we believe.  A valuable further benefit of participation in Club trackdays.

James
(Helper on Club trackdays to Commander in Chief Maitland)

[GulfSeven]

Thanks Carlie. It looks like I will be giving A-Plan a call when the time comes after all.

[CarlieHowden]

No problem :D

[GulfSeven]

I may have a chat with Adrian Flux too to see if I can get their policy to stop requiring ATDO membership and replace it with something more useful. It's not an issue for L7C track days of course.

[Dan Marsh]

Footman James have said that they (Ageas) won't insure me for the Williams Charity Trackday as Williams are not an MSA-approved track day organiser or car club, nor is the event MSA approved.  Ageas cannot provide FJ with a list of approved circuits or TDOs/clubs either, so I have to email FJ for every trackday I may want to attend and ask them to check cover with Ageas. Sounds pretty ridiculous!  Are such approved lists available to the public? MSA doesn't exist anymore does it?

I checked if they would cover days at Llandow (my local), organised by the circuit itself, that are held monthly.  Also a NO!

All very frustrating if its going to severely limit the days I could attend (with the comfort of insurance), so I might have to look at an alternative insurer next year. That or an independent track-only policy...?

Dan

[Shortshift]

Dan

Motorsport UK is now the formal body that governs UK motorsport activities, effectively superseding MSA.  But trackdays do not come under Motorsport UK jurisdiction anyway, as they are non-competitive.  Most insurers refer to a list of ATDO members but I have to say there are question marks about whether that organisation is still operating or not.  Matters are not as clear as they should be.

Turning to your specific concern, though, I think you'll find that the Williams day is being run by Castle Combe Circuit, on behalf of Williams, and they are most definitely a well known trackday operator and recognised for insurance purposes.

More generally, make sure you sign-up early for Club trackdays; we are recognised (and respected) operators and you should have no problem getting insurance cover on any of our events.

James
(Trackday Support)

[GulfSeven]

Turning to your specific concern, though, I think you'll find that the Williams day is being run by Castle Combe Circuit, on behalf of Williams, and they are most definitely a well known trackday operator and recognised for insurance purposes.

It really depends on what each policy says. The Adrian Flux policy wording for example doesn't look like it would cover Castle Combe Circuit unless one of the other criteria is also met.

[Shortshift]

"The Adrian Flux policy wording for example doesn't look like it would cover Castle Combe Circuit unless one of the other criteria is also met."

Not sure what you're saying here, Tim.  Is it not the case that Flux have agreed to provide cover (your post above) on the basis of Castle Combe being a recognised trackday organiser - in effect, a quasi ATDO member (given the uncertain status of that organisation)?  Combe Circuit certainly doesn't fall into any of the other categories of being a manufacturer, a magazine or a motoring club!

James

[GulfSeven]

Apparently not. According to the person I spoke to on the phone, they agreed to cover it because they considered Williams a motor manufacturer! The statement I have in writing doesn't specify why it's covered, it just says:

We are writing to confirm that you are covered to take part in the Williams charity track day on 27/07/2021 as long as you adhere to the following points. We consider the event to be organised by a recognised organisaton.

And the 'following points' they mention are just all the normal clauses about it being non-competitive etc.

[CarlieHowden]

Hey everyone,

After seeing some of you struggling to get cover, I spoke with our track insurers and advised it's also a charity track day. They have agreed that if purchasing a standalone track day insurance cover through ourselves for the Williams Charity Track Day on 27th July 2021 we will be issuing a 25% discount* on the normal quoted premium for it so that those of you how need cover and can't get with your current insurers will have the option of our discounted rate - this is exclusively agreed for Lotus7Club members.

Those of you who have track day bundles on your insurance through ourselves can use it as one of 5 track days on your policy.

Hope this helps some of you out, 

Carlie

*Minimum premiums and insurance premium tax apply as usual

[Dan Marsh]

Thanks James. 

I put these points to FJ and the underwriter is sticking by the track needing MSA/Motorsport UK approval, as well as the TDO needing to be an ATDO member.  They couldn't provide a list of such groups which just seems bizarre.  They seemed sure that Williams were not an ATDO member so it was a "no from them". Irrespective of that, they will not cover charity days . 

I will just have to write to FJ for every track day I want to join . I attended a very good L7C day at Blyton a few years ago, but was just too slow booking-on to the club days this year (Covid restriction uncertainty, new baby, work commitments, blah, blah...).

Noted Carlie that A-Plan looks to be far more reasonable for track cover.

Dan

 

[CarlieHowden]

Thanks Dan, As I said in a previous comment as long as the track day is officially controlled with safety briefings, stewarded entry to track (not too many cars on track at any one time) and stewards monitoring track behavior (not overtaking on corners etc) there shouldn't be an issue with our insurers here.

Carlie

[Toughie]

Well done, Carlie.  That looks like a terrific offer from A-Plan for our members.

Thank you very much.