Frogman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Nice work James and thanks for the detail. I really like the design and am sure it will work. Had you thought about a teflon or nylon wedge and no aluminium bash plate. I would imagine it would satisfy the strike and glide intent more effectively. I appreciate the effort on this and it is food for thought for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 18, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 18, 2020 Replying to #26I agree, Frogman - a Teflon, Nylon 6, acetal or similar polymer block could well be the perfect material to use for the wedge except for two reservations that held me back. The first is cost; try as I might, I couldn't find a suitably sized block of one of these materials for much less than £90 or so - often more - and that's getting a bit serious for me. And the second concern is how you actually work these materials to produce the required wedge shape. These polymers can be very difficult to cut using typical domestic tools (in fact, they can be very hard to cut and shape even if you have a reasonably equipped machine-shop on hand) so that it also a major consideration.But I'd certainly prefer a polymer approach if I could find a way to overcome those two issues.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelpugh Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Hi James,An excellent looking solution created there!I know it would double the cost, but would the genuine Caterham nylon wedge work added to your masterpiece to replace the wooden block?https://caterhamparts.co.uk/dry-sump/6506-dry-sump-wedge-kit.html?search_query=Sump+gaurd&results=130Just a suggestion if you wanted to look at alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 19, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 19, 2020 Hi Nigel. Unfortunately not - the Caterham so-called dry sump wedge (which actually protects the bellhousing flange) is very much smaller in all dimensions than is needed to protect the lowflying Cosworth dry-sump. I have one on my R500; it's quite a complex component that is part-cast and part-machined to shape. A lovely piece in its own right, actually, but not of use in this application.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelpugh Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Shame, yes i thought you would have one on the R500, i just remembered fitting mine to my R500 Kit build.It's back to your drawing/designing board then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogman Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 #27 Gotcha, I didn't think they would be that expensive but I haven't looked. Next suggestion would be one of the thinner nylon chipping boards laminated on a thinner piece of aluminium than the cheque plate. Wood as shock absorption, or the foam wedge mentioned, aluminium for shock distribution and plastic chopping board for glide. I am also very conscious I am coming up with smart arse ideas from an arm chair sadly 5,000 miles away from my car or I would be doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 19, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 19, 2020 Replying to #31Fire away! There's no monopoly on ideas that would turn out to be better solutions here. I do think that the base platform/plate concept is quite powerful because it provides a strong, stiff and horizontal means to mount whatever 'rise and glide' elements you think best, but I'm hoping that someone can come up with a better wedge piece.Someone else suggested cutting down a plastic/nylon kitchen chopping-board (they are as cheap as chips on eBay) for the impact plate and I think that has real merit, as it will really help with the 'slide' part of the equation. But you still need something behind the sloping material to react the impact forces (without too much deformation) so as to feed them into the plate and the cruciform structure.I'm looking forward to seeing some better solutions bolted to cars!By the way, Frogman - why are you so far from your car? Is it lock-down related?James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogman Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I move between Colombia and UK several times during the year for work and I was in Colombia when the music stopped. Doesn´t look like there will be any international flights until probably mid late June at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Re #25:I've just made a few measurements of the wet sump on my R400D metric S3: Across the fins = about 210mm LH (O/S) edge from centre line = 80mm RH (N/S) edge from centre line = 130mm Front of sump from centre of cruciform = 135mm Bottom of sump below cruciform = 65mm Diameter of angled cruciform tubes = about 20mm (actually, 19.3mm - 19.5mm)James, does your sump sit centrally in relation to the cruciform? If so, I think I'm going to have to modify your design and make an "offset" version of the base plate.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 23, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 23, 2020 Replying to #34:Great that you're looking into doing this, John.Yes, the Cosworth dry-sump pan is also offset and by about the same amount - though I never measured it. My approach was to locate the platform plate on centre-line of car (so that the cruciform mounting arrangement is symmetrical and works well) and then I just positioned the wedge on the plate so that it lined up with and directly covered the front face of the engine - which meant it was positioned away from centre-line. It does look, though, as though the front face of the Duratec wet sump (is that from Raceline?) is a bit wider at 210mm than the Cosworth casting - but I suspect it makes no difference to the principles.If you look at my photos with this in mind, I think the offset will be apparent in at least some of them.Hope that helps. Keep the photos coming as you make progress!James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 23, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 23, 2020 Here you go - this one shows the offset with the Cosworth dry-sump. The platform plate is centralised on the car and the wedge is offset towards the N/S to directly cover the exposed sump width. I suppose there's no reason why the wedge couldn't be made wider and also mounted centrally, if keeping things symmetrical helps you to sleep soundly at night!James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark w Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Don't forget the Feng Shui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 23, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 23, 2020 Replying to #37:"Don't forget the Feng Shui"Do I get those from eBay or does Redline stock them?James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark w Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 James You need to find a seller based in Asia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Re #35 + #36:Thanks, James. All very clear now -- I should have looked at your earlier photos more closely.And yes, my sump is from Raceline.I'm off now to mock up a hardboard model of the platform plate.Btw, when I browsed "alum-droitwich", I couldn't find a 350x200x6 sheet. The nearest is 400x200x6. Did you have your plate cut to order?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 24, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 24, 2020 John - ah yes, that was it (400 x 200 x 6). They offer one cut for free, so I went for that (and asked them to supply both pieces).A hardboard model is a great idea. My prototype was made of 6mm MDF. With the model in place (allow for the depth of the clamps which will space the board around 8mm below the cruciform) you can then work out the total depth that you need your wedge to be.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Thanks, James.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Wonder if one of these could be adapted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 24, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 24, 2020 Now that (the wheelchair/caravan ramp) looks to be an excellent find! Could probably make 4 wedges out of a single twin-pack - so around £5 each. I did look for similar and didn't find anything as promising as this. Maybe just one thing to consider would be weight; it might be quite a lump! And I'd still recommend an impact plate for the lower surface, to help with the sliding bit.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark w Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Do we think that ramp is solid or hollowed out at the back with ribs to save on material ? Would be great if solid . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 This is the underside:JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 It's rubber construction and the location of the voids might be an issue, hard nylon would be preferable as this rubber is more likely to dig in rather than glide.What about buying appropriately sized blocks of nylon offcut from ebay sellers and halving them corner to corner on the band saw, sand off with a DA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brown Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 the ramp people.com have a variety of different types and heights but could perhaps be fitted direct to chassis cross bracing with the pipe clamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 A quick question, James...What is the distance between the centre of your cruciform and the front of the engine (measured to the timing cover immediately behind the crank pulley -- not to the sump itself)? I'm beginning to suspect the CSR and S3 differ in that area. For info, mine is 135mm.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted May 25, 2020 Author Leadership Team Share Posted May 25, 2020 On my R500 (Series 3) that dimension looks to be about 14cm. On the CSR it's more difficult for me to measure accurately at the moment but it looks to be a touch shorter - around 12cm between the same points.So there does look to be a difference but, hopefully, not one that affects the basics?James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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