Quaife ATB diff....opinions please

[7 wonders of the world]

The quaiffe is an ATB not an LSD - they have very different characteristics, if your looking for a superb LSD speak to Steve at the  link below and have him fit a Tracsport for you.

Tracsport

By comparisonn the ATB offers very little performance improvement over an open differential

 

[K7 VCT]

https://www.birdsauto.com/

Contact them, they did mine removed diff,  fitted ATB n the diff case and refitted in the car. Very good service from them.

[Andy135]

19 hours ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

By comparisonn the ATB offers very little performance improvement over an open differential

That sounds intriguing. Can you point me to some data on that please?

[BigCol]

2 hours ago, Andy135 said:

That sounds intriguing. Can you point me to some data on that please?

Have a look here…

[Andy135]

10 hours ago, BigCol said:

Have a look here…

I've seen that content on RRT's site before but it doesn't seem to support @7 wonders of the world's statement above. Unless I'm missing something?

[ScottR400D]

1 hour ago, Andy135 said:

I've seen that content on RRT's site before but it doesn't seem to support @7 wonders of the world's statement above. Unless I'm missing something? 

One thing about RRT’s stuff, plate diffs definitely do not all fit with ‘Turning at lower speeds will cause some noise, slight wheel hopping, and a general lack of smoothness from the differential. This is normal, the friction plates slip and bind causing the noise.’

Certainly the Titan is the epitome of that but the Tracsport shows none of those characteristics. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by ScottR400D

[Golf Juliet Tango]

As some one without an engineering degree I find that article both wider ranging and more nuanced than the discussion here.

I'm going to leave the Crossflow with its Ital rear axle with an open differential.

[Geoff Brown]

2 hours ago, ScottR400D said:

One thing about RRT’s stuff, plate diffs definitely do not all fit with ‘Turning at lower speeds will cause some noise, slight wheel hopping, and a general lack of smoothness from the differential. This is normal, the friction plates slip and bind causing the noise.’

Certainly the Titan is the epitome of that but the Tracsport shows none of those characteristics. 

I do not know where RRT got that info from, definitely not from real life experience. Especially where the Tracsport LSU is concerned. If RRT is referring to the TITAN then if one uses fancy multi grade GL5 oils then noise & slippage is more likely as the oils have ingredients that assist slippage & IMO enhance noise. 

[Wrightpayne]

My ATB is nice and quiet.

[K7 VCT]

1 hour ago, Wrightpayne said:

My ATB is nice and quiet.

Mine also.......

[7 wonders of the world]

 

ATB's are quiet yes, (though don't confuse LSD noise with that from the final drive) as is a correctly designed and set plate unit, the difference is in performance however is simply not comparible, having had ATB's and 3 versions of plate LSD, Tran-X, ZF and Tracsport, there is a very clear winner.

 

You also need to consider the performance return for your financial outlay... ATB circa £830 plus £250+ for fitting & bearings etc for a unit that can never offer anywhere near 100% lock up, under hard performance, kerb hoping is one thing on track, but on the road you do feel them spin on damp white lines and metalwork too, you will also feel them 'shuffle' whilst pressing on, they dont inspire confidence, very subjective I know, and this is dependant on how you drive, and, prefer the car to 'feel', in my opinion they offer no more than 20% improvement over an open unit if that.

The Tran-X was more 'on' and 'off', and needed a higher preload to reduce this, the ZF was a proven unit, once the preload was corrected for a lightweight car and the transition was very good, the Tracsport move's the bar to a new height, seemless transition, very progressive, silent whilst manouvering at slow speed and incredible flat out traction.

There are thousands of performance tintops running plate LSD's for millions of miles with much higher preloads with no additional service requrements aside from scheduled oil change, please dont judge all plate units by the low standard of design and durability the Titan introduced to the market.

 

 

 

 

 

[Drakman]

I went through the what diff to use scenario nearly 12 months ago now.  My Titan LSD had no preload at all after 13,000 klm's it was very quiet though, no gear whine or bearing noise and it would still lock if driven in a spirited manner.  I read everything i could find on LSD's available for the Caterham, i was quite impressed by the O.S. Giken differential but none were available for the BMW 168 carrier at that time, they may be available now though.  I spoke to the distributor in Italy of all places and he told me they have made them to suit the 168 diff in the past.

After a conversation with Ollie at RRT i opted for a Drexler diff centre set up by Ollie to his spec's for a Caterham.  My first drive with the Drexler i nearly shite myself, shuddering when doing a 3 point turns, clunking and it seemed like the diff lock up didn't want to release and when it did i was very noticeable.   I have 17,000 on the car now and in all honesty i would now insist on a Drexler diff, set up by Ollie, for any future Caterhams i get.  The only time i know it's there is when it saves me from my own stupidity going to hard into corners.  

[Geoff Brown]

18 hours ago, 7 wonders of the world said:

 

ATB's are quiet yes, (though don't confuse LSD noise with that from the final drive) as is a correctly designed and set plate unit, the difference is in performance however is simply not comparible, having had ATB's and 3 versions of plate LSD, Tran-X, ZF and Tracsport, there is a very clear winner.

 

You also need to consider the performance return for your financial outlay... ATB circa £830 plus £250+ for fitting & bearings etc for a unit that can never offer anywhere near 100% lock up, under hard performance, kerb hoping is one thing on track, but on the road you do feel them spin on damp white lines and metalwork too, you will also feel them 'shuffle' whilst pressing on, they dont inspire confidence, very subjective I know, and this is dependant on how you drive, and, prefer the car to 'feel', in my opinion they offer no more than 20% improvement over an open unit if that.

The Tran-X was more 'on' and 'off', and needed a higher preload to reduce this, the ZF was a proven unit, once the preload was corrected for a lightweight car and the transition was very good, the Tracsport move's the bar to a new height, seemless transition, very progressive, silent whilst manouvering at slow speed and incredible flat out traction.

There are thousands of performance tintops running plate LSD's for millions of miles with much higher preloads with no additional service requrements aside from scheduled oil change, please dont judge all plate units by the low standard of design and durability the Titan introduced to the market.

 

 

 

 

 

In a nut shell, if one does not want to read through the 'Titan LSD Viability' post of 78 pages, 678 posts & 75.8K reads !!

[7 wonders of the world]

12 hours ago, Drakman said:

 

After a conversation with Ollie at RRT i opted for a Drexler diff centre set up by Ollie to his spec's for a Caterham.  My first drive with the Drexler i nearly shite myself, shuddering when doing a 3 point turns, clunking and it seemed like the diff lock up didn't want to release and when it did i was very noticeable.   I have 17,000 on the car now and in all honesty i would now insist on a Drexler diff, set up by Ollie, for any future Caterhams i get.  The only time i know it's there is when it saves me from my own stupidity going to hard into corners.  

Is it still behaving in this manner now....?

[Drakman]

No, not at all.  I think it just had to bed in? after a bit of use it is excellent.  The Drexler, set up by Ollie, would be top of my "must have" list on a Caterham now.

[7 wonders of the world]

I'm surprised it behaved like that at all....