K series swan neck manifold with KV6 throttle bodies

[D Jones]

I am trying to get hold of workshop manuals or details of the above. I have the bare manifold and throttle bodies but no ancillaries and no idea what I need to rebuild them.

I know they are not as efficient as Jenveys but would like to try to rebuild them ( or at least work out if the parts are available then cost them)

Any advice greatly appreciated.

David

[SLR No.77]

They're not "that" inefficient compared to Jenveys!

From memory other than the basic manifold and bodies, you'll need:

• The thin vacuum pipes, although you can blank off the nipples and map/run without them;
• The IACV cast balance pipe and IACV valve, although again you can blank off and run without;
• The cast air filter backplate and filter specifically made for the Caterham installation, unless you adapt a universal backplate to fit;
• The support bar that connects the bodies to the block to prevent stress fractures to the manifold;
• Fuel rail and injectors (standard Rover).

Any chance you can post a picture or list everything you have?

Stu.

[D Jones]

Stu,

thanks for the reply, I will try to post some photos.

one of your comments sounds very interesting as the manifold I have is cracked and is being welded at the moment, so the support bar you mention is of much interest.

 

[oilyhands]

One thing to watch for is the throttle softening wedges on the throttle plates, these are molded on plastic and have a habit of detaching and going walkabout into your engine. Given the age of the TBs I would remove them and solder up the holes.

Oily

[TomB]

I've got this set up on mine. If you PM me your email, I'll send a set of close up photos this evening. 

[TomB]

David, pics on email.

These swan neck/ KV6 TBs were originally fitted to early SLR so are good for getting on for 190bhp. So while they are marginally less efficient with Jenveys or Roller barrels due to the longer and curved manifold, unless your after big power they should be fine. Mine are on a standard Supersport head and give 150bhp on a 1.8k, running on an Emerald ECU.

[D Jones]

Tom,

the pics help a lot, I can understand how it all goes together a bit better now, I would be very happy with 190bhp! Currently 150bhp.

I Will post some pics of what I have today, but if anyone has a diagram with part numbers that would help as well.

Oily,

thanks for the advice, I may well reach a point where the cost of the missing parts equate to a set of Jenveys, but I like the idea of the engine looking original, so will explore a bit further.

 

 

 

[TomB]

Just a though, the actual throttle body is off the Rover KV6, probably fitted to the big Rover like the old 800. So a workshop manual for those might help. You've got the custom manifold, and linkages to work out. 

Does anyone know who made them for Caterham? Was it Titan? 

[simon_h]

The swan neck systems were a ptp part for the mgf cup to start with. I don't think any of it was caterham specific really, it was also used by lotus and westfield on their early vhpd engines. 

[D Jones]

Stu,

i have tried to post the photos taken earlier today, but it's not simple....... Or perhaps I am !

forgive my ignorance of the terminology used,, but what is an iacv

iacv cast balance pipe - if this is the tube linking and on top of the manifolds, then I have this

The cast air filter backplate - I have, (though the foam filter has fallen apart £100ish from ITG)

the support bar is the one I don't understand, other than the bolts from the block to the manifold I cannot see any other "support" which may well explain the crack and the reason the previous owner of parts  changed to Jenveys

Fuel rail and sensors - can I remove the ones from my 140 X power engine or do I need new?​

 

Jonathan,

if you are reading this, could you help me with the "how to post photos" details that I have seen you help people with many times before! But strangely cannot find in my hour of need.

 

Anyone else with some knowledge please join in.

[D Jones]

Simon

is ptp  the manufacturer?

presumably standard gasket, manifold to the head and a Rover 800 gasket, throttle body to the manifold

[TomB]

IACV = Idle Air Control Valve. It's a secondary air bleed controlled by the ECU to help control the idle. It is the plastic thing with big electrical connector on that attaches to the top by the engine. You'll see it on the photos I sent you.  The balance bar take the air fed in from this valve across to each inlet. 

My ECU was mapped to turn the IACV and use the ignition/ injection timing to control idle, so I could remove it but I've not got round to it. If I did I would have to find a way of blocking the holes for the balance bar. 

The support bar is simply a metal bar with a insert for a bolt at each end that attaches to the block and the big v shaped casting underneath the inlet manifold to support the weight. I've got one on mine but before I found one, I wondered whether I could make one from some Ali box section rod from B&Q with the ends squashed in a vice with a hole drilled in for the bolt.

Fuel tail, pressure reg and sensors should swop over. 

[andymal]

Dave

The swan neck you have came off one of the very first SLRs and the car was to some extent a prototype. I have come across several items that are different from the later cars and am aware that the SLR race series managed to sort out many gremlins. There was definitely no support bracket for the swan neck on the car and suspect this was one of the modifications made as production continued.

Andy

[D Jones]

Andy,

thanks for the information, i will have a look for a suitable bracket, or fabricate something to suit. 

I hope your house move went well, as you can see, I have finally got round to having a sort out and my wife seems happy for me to disappear into the garage "faffing about" I'm also quite happy to be out in the garage as the heating system makes it quite cosy, all I need now is a kettle and I can move out permanently.

[simon_h]

I would imagine they had them made yes, I am pretty sure they were responsible for all Rover performance parts in the day. They are long defunct now though. Manifold to head is the vvc type gasket and I guess the throttle to manifold ones are rover 800. Early kv6 engine part. I think the later 800's used a different throttle arrangement. 

[SLR No.77]

I'm pretty sure the support bar is the tubular steel one same as fitted to the original 1400SS cars with the forward facing plenum, the take-off hole on the block is right at the lower edge just above the bearing ladder.

Stu.

[Jonathan Kay]

i have tried to post the photos taken earlier today, but it's not simple.......

You can either upload the photos here or link to them on another site: which would you prefer?

Follow the Forum User Guide and let us know where you get stuck.

Jonathan

[D Jones]

Gentlemen,

thanks for all the responses so far, here is an image of what I have, and thanks to Jonathan for the notes!

 

[SLR No.77]

• Your existing throttle pot will fit directly on the end of the butterfly shaft;
• You'll need to either fabricate your own gaskets, or alternatively use something like Loctite Blue RTV sealant to seal the bodies to the manifold;
• You have the IACV and balance pipe already in place, there should be a filter on the underside? Your existing IACV plug will connect to the socket, you then have a choice ... assuming you're using a programmable ecu (e.g. Emerald) you can have it mapped using the IACV, you can close the valve through the ecu software and leave it closed, not in use and map without, or you can remove the complete assembly, blank off the holes and map without. When I had this setup I left it in use.
• Your existing fuel rail and injectors will fit onto the manifold section;
• You need to either source the small vacuum pipes and t-pieces to link the nipples (above the inlet face of the manifold part) to the fuel pressure regulator, or alternatively blank them off.
• As you've already said you need a filter;
• Fabricate a support strut from the block!

Stu.

[D Jones]

Stu,

thank you so much, it sounds like most of the parts I need are already on my car and will transfer over. 

I will arrange a new filter for the TBs from ITG and fix the bottom of the IACV which requires a new piece of foam as the metal disc is hanging off.

Andymal did give me the ECU to go with the manifold, but I may well go down the emerald route anyway if for no other reason than it might assist with MOT testing and emissions.

I may try sourcing spares of the fuel rail and injectors to allow me to swap and play /panic and change back if it doesn't start!

My wife won't see me for ages, "faffing" in the garage, I'm quite looking forward to it

i really appreciate everyone's help in understanding the parts, perhaps in years to come I can impart the knowledge on to someone else.

Thank you

David