Class 1 - spec questions

[andysteele]

Having had a great run at Curborough to get down to a 66.6s lap, I'm starting to wonder what will help make get another 2s or so. Definitely some time still left to find with the driver, but also consider what upgrades may be worth considering (having chatted to Rob Jacobs!!)

Car is a 2009 Sigma Academy, spec as it left the Academy, plus fresh A539's and had a suspension setup professionally. Thoughts...

Tracksport injectors and remap - I was running out of revs, hitting 6800 redline. Over the line I was on the limiter getting 79 or 80mph recorded where as others were getting up to 84/85. Got to be worth a bit of time?

LSD - all those ahead of me had an LSD according to the handbook, I assume would give more traction out of the corners, better launch onto the straights and hence best tied with the extra revs. But pricey.

Anti roll bars - running narrow track front with standard front ARB (orange) and no rear ARB. What do others run ?

Anything else I'm missing?

[Mark Durrant]

LSD, driver training and experience. I cannot comment on the ARB but did you suffer from understeer.

[Richard Price]

Andy,

My front ARB preference, when otherwise standard narrow track suspension and list 1a tyres, was the stiffer 5/8" red bushed ARB.

However, and LSD and a different ARB are not going to knock 2 seconds off your Curborough times...

A look at your video may offer more clues....

[andysteele]

Talk to me about the LSD. Does it really make that much if a difference?

[Mark Durrant]

Andy

Off the line you will gain time as an open diff will spin up one wheel and you will also benefit when exiting a corner. For example you will have better traction when exiting Fradley which will increase the exit speed that you will carry down the straight. However, you better check the regs if you intend to go racing as an LSD might not be permitted. Hopefully Mark Gibson will be along soon as he has competed at Curbs in a similar spec car.

[Mark Gibson]

Hi Andy,

As Mark D says, I competed at Curborough in May 2013 in an identical spec car to you (2009 academy car with A539 tyres, open diff and sealed academy engine).

I went with a bunch of sprinters earlier that year to Northampton Motorsport for a rolling road session and my car came out at 118bhp which was the lowest of all class 1 and would explain your lower terminal speeds and if you look at the class 1 results for Curborough in May 2013 you will see very similar terminal speeds for me compared to you:

https://www.lotus7.club/sites/default/files/images/users/11872/Curborough/Curborough%201%202013.pdf

My fastest time that day was a 64.94s which was 0.5 seconds behind Robert Jacobs who was using an LSD and had already upgraded to the tracksport package. So the obvious upgrade path for you is LSD/tracksport.

However, going back to your queries, I completely agree with Richard. I reckon it is 50/50 between upgrades and driver. You can spend fortunes on upgrades but that may only get you half way there - some advice/coaching and seat time in the car will help you with the other 50%.

Feel free to message me directly if you would like any further advice.

Mark

 

[andrew mckay]

I would suggest the Curborough practice days to try different things out. Just rocking up and doing  few practice and timed laps isn't much track time for most of us to get dialed in.

As Richard says the mods won't knock a few seconds off. Two seconds off would put you close to the class record.

 

[Mark Durrant]

I would also add that Mark Gibson is an experienced sprinter who has driven Curborough many times in different cars. Curborough is a technical course and needs tuition/practice to set a good time.

[andysteele]

Thanks all. I definitely think a chunk of time is in the driver, based on Marks time in similar spec around 1.5s. Just curious about the ultimate spec and what to try really. I struggle to get to many rounds each year so I know I'm down on seat time, but that's down to a busy home/family life.

[CheshireCat]

Hi Andy, 

Some good advice above.

I can't comment on Sigma cars because i havent driven one.  Spec wise, i have competed for the last 3 years in an ex Academy K series with widetrack, LSD, rear ARB and red front ARB. 

Seat time as has been highlighted is important and Paul, me, Richard and John who were quicker than you will probably compete in 7 events per year. Curborough is pretty technical and the 1.5/2 seconds you mention is possibly a little bit everywhere. A Curborough practice day could be beneficial in finding time and you may also get the opportunity to have a passenger ride with a more experienced competitor. There is also the marshalls sprints on the Saturday before the Club event on the Sunday which can help. Driver training and being pushed out of your comfort zone is very useful. At an event, some competitors find video analysis helpful.

If you want to try other venues then you could look at some of the HillClimb schools like Loton Park and Harewood to help learn the tracks and see if you like them before entering or there is the Club track day at Anglesey on the Friday before the Club sprints on the Saturday/Sunday.

Clive

[andysteele]

thanks all, i do use videos, and even felt on my best run there was a fair amount of time to be found. I dont like holding it on the limiter, and I`m sure can be more aggressive over the curbs to take more speed through the mole hill. After the start i was feathering the throttle to get round the left hander, having lost it there last year and had a grassy moment.

Ultimately i was really pleased with my time and glad to be competitive, last year (on very old A539's, and nothing else different) i only managed a 70.04, which i was disappointed with at the time, so to come back with new tyres and get 66.66s really gave me a boost. I guess the question comes from whether its worth putting some money into upgrades. I may not do much else this year, but keen to keep chipping away at my Curborough time, even if its once a year! 

With young kids I`m finding it hard to justify (and convince the wife) to be away for a whole weekend, else would do the Saturday event as well. Off to check the dates of the remaining events against the wifes calendar, but from memory we`re booked for a lot of the weekends with holidays and family birthdays. :(

[Mark Durrant]

Lines look good but most of your time will be gained in the first corner (paddock). This is where practice can help and you gradually increase your speed.

[chris whitlow]

Hi Andy,

I managed exactly the same time as you last weekend and I was half a second slower than you last year.

Last year I had 14" wheels with Uniroyal Rain Experts, a five speed box, Quaife ATB diff with a 3.62 CWP, a 1/2" front anti roll bar and a windscreen.

This year I had 13" wheels with A539s, a six speed box, a plated 3.62 diff, a 5/8" anti roll bar and an aeroscreen.

When you also take into account that I have more power than you I can only assume you're already a much better driver than me and that similar mods would reduce your times.

As far as my performance is concerned, I can no longer blame the car!

Chris

[Simon.Rogers]

Andy

If it were me and you can not commit to more events there is no real point in upgrading the car.

It seems you are largely trying to better your own times give the above so just try and do as many events as possible and leave the car alone.

If I had to I would fit some 3 way Penske's to it rather than any of those other silly upgrades :-)

[Stuart Miller 7]

7 second improvement in my Curborough time over 4 years in class 4.  I changed the dampers but I reckon the difference is 80% driver / 20% car........ 

[Jeff S]

Andy,

I shared my car at 2 separate Curborough events with 2 different talented drivers.

They (embarrassingly for me) both won the class on the day proving that there was nothing wrong with my car just my driving talent!

Do as many events as you can, enjoy them and your times will improve without spending ££££'s. (voice of experience).

 

Jeff

 

[andysteele]

I`m tempted to give the approach of letting a better drive set a benchmark in my car. That would atleast show how much time I`ve got to find!

[Dannyboy]

Andy. 

Come and have a chat at your next event. I'm happy to try to help. 

Lines loked good and I don't think that present,y spending money on an LSD is where you'd get benefit. Making the car quicker will improve your times but making you quicker will be of more benefit.. 

plots of on,off through first bend... needs to be smooth with maybe a confidence lift.. the more speed and aggression you can take through here the more temp you will have in the tyres.. there are lots of little easy pointers that will help to bring time, after that its setup and the car. Ultimately it becomes about confidence and how close to the edge you are prepared to take the car. However, that does take time to build.. 

from experience, the cars I've dual driven have never seemed overall much different in terms of the time. Jeff's car felt different to mine and so much better, however overall it would appear that both cars would ultimately set similar times with me driving. Your car will/should be pretty competitive once you've gained the experience to start to push the car.