CycleSi Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 What should I looking be looking at if my R400 K-Series 1.8 EU3 engine is reluctant to start in this recent cold weather.I have just fitted a brand new battery and that is providing plenty of ooomph. It's taking a good 6 or 7 pushes of the starter button to fire up. It always used to start much better in the past. The coil packs and spark plugs are fairly new too.Thanks, Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 30, 2016 Member Share Posted November 30, 2016 Does the cranking speed seem normal by ear? Does it ever seem to fire but not catch, or does it catch as soon as it fires, even though that's delayed? No problems at tickover once it's started?You've got a new battery, but I'd still start with measuring the minimum voltage across the battery while cranking.Then I'd inspect and clean all the relevant connections to the starter, including the big earths.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Have you tried the TPS reset procedure lately ? Ignition on but don't start engine. Press throttle fully to floor slowly and fully release 5 times. Then ignition off. Now try starting without touching throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 If indeed your spec of 1.8 has this feature ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 Thanks for the helpful replies chaps. I will check, measure & reset and hope that I find something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Don't think you have that facility (reset)on the R400 but could be TPS or throttle bodies out of balance mine doesn't like the cold weather either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Was it mapped with cold start in mind ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 1) The cranking speed does seem normal.2) It doesn't appear to 'catch' until the 6th or 7th attempt3) It is fine at tickover once started.4) What should the minimum voltage be whilst cranking?5) I'm going to check all connection & earths and try the TPS reset (not sure whether it has that 'facility' though).6) Troy at Northampton Motorsport mapped it, but I don't recall discussing a cold start map.Thanks again...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy77 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I believe the TPS reset is a feature on a MEMS ECU, not MBE, which I'm guessing you have on an R400 engine.If this is something which only happens in freezing cold, and if you rule out the battery, I'd be looking at mapping or TB set up. The latter is relatively easy to do at home. The adjusters are: Centre (grub screw and hex lock nut) - balance between throttle bodies to ensure both pulling same air; Nearest head (bolt and locknut) - idle set stop; Nearest filter (bolt and locknut) - full throttle stop (to stop barrels going beyond fully open).To start with, fully open the throttle and check/set the full throttle stop and, at the same time, use the centre screw to roughly set the barrel balance. Use your finger to feel when the barrel becomes parallel in the body. When both pairs are the same that will do to start with. When closed, there should be an even 1-2mm gap across all the TBsDo you have Easimap and MBE comms? This makes adjusting the idle stop screw a bit easier, although you can still do it by measuring voltage across the TPS - the ECU map will have an idle/load site zero voltage setting for the TPS (standard I think is 0.45V, but sometimes mappers set it differently. Mine is 0.33V done by Track n Road), so before adjusting the idle stop, you want to note what the idle voltage is and then loosen and back the TPS off so it reads something lower than the idle voltage (as low as possible). This will allow you to make idle stop adjustments without tipping the ECU into the first throttle load sites. Then you can tinker with the idle stop screw 1/8 turn at a time to see if you get any improvement. Note the position of the screw before you start so you can always go back to how it was if it makes no difference or makes it worse. If you do find an idle setting which improves things, tighten the lock nut and finish off by re-adjusting the TPS so that you end up with the same idle voltage as before.If none of that makes an improvement, ask your mapper to take a look at the cold start mapping. I suspect this is the more likely cause of the two, but it's good to get to know your engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Piers300 Posted December 1, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted December 1, 2016 I had terrible cold start issues with my R300K. The problem turned out to be corroded pins and bad connections in the 14 pin connector under the throttle bodies. Once S&C got it apart, a quick squirt of contact cleaner did the job and now it starts fine.The car would start if you squirted fuel directly into the T/B's and would restart as long as the engine was warn. I replaced everything in the ignition, starter motor, battery, in line fuel filter, injectors and ECU tested etc etc and it still would not start. You can read the tale under "A Reluctant Starter". Please check the condition on the connector. I also improved battery voltage drop on cranking by cleaning all the major terminations.Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 1, 2016 Member Share Posted December 1, 2016 4) What should the minimum voltage be whilst cranking?Something like 10.5 V. There are two issues here: enough oomph to crank, and not dropping the voltage to a point where ECUs, fuel pumps etc decide not not to play nicely. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 1, 2016 Member Share Posted December 1, 2016 Do TPS problems that affect starting usually also affect tickover, pick-up etc?ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Please could you (or somebody) post a picture/photo of the 14 pin connector under the throttle bodies that you're talking about.If it's easier you can send it directly to me at: simonwinfield@hotmail.comThank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Piers300 Posted December 1, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted December 1, 2016 Simon - you cannot miss it. It connects the main car loom to the engine and has 14 cables in and out. It is under the throttle bodies and close to the coil. It is not that easy to get at and on my car, you need to take the Pipercross air filter off the car to see it.My connector on the R300K is Grey and there is no other connector like it on the car to my knowledge. It is about one and a half inches in diameter. Mine was very difficult to get apart. I failed to do it and two friends also tried and they could not get it apart.At the time of trying to get it apart, I did not know it was the culprit causing the starting issues. The starting problems began in 2014 on the IoW Blat. It failed to start again on the 2015 and 2016 IoW events and once home, gradually got worse to the point it would not start without fuel being squirted into the T/B's. In the end after spending lots of money replacing parts that were OK, I gave up and Sevens & Classics, at Brands Hatch looked at the car and they found the problem.If I get time tomorrow or over the weekend, I will try and get a photo and email it to you.Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wales South AR Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 My R300 was reluctant to start especially when less than 10c ambient until i balanced the roller barrels , get yourself a airflow syncrometer and do the proceedure. mine is now like chalk and cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 Thanks Piers - I have found it tucked away. Not sure my hands are going to squeeze in there to check it, but I'll persist.I'll also check/balance the roller barrels too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Let me know if you want the tool Si Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Piers300 Posted December 4, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted December 4, 2016 Simon I am not sure what make of contact cleaner S & C used to get rid of the green corrosion. I do remember that the engineer gave both parts of the connector a very good squirt and then left it for five minutes, before trial connecting a couple of times.i am sure someone will be along to recommend a suitable contact cleaner. Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Piers300 Posted December 7, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted December 7, 2016 I have found out that S&C used Comma Contact Cleaner.Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 8, 2016 Member Share Posted December 8, 2016 That appears to be a mixture of petrol and propan-2-ol (isopropanol). After mechanical decrudding either of those common cleaners should do the job.For subsequent protection it's widely asserted that some proprietary water repellents are much better than WD-40. Plausible but I don't think I've ever seen a decent study.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 Thank you for all of your helpful suggestions.I am pleased to say it is now sorted. I managed to split the large, grey 14 pin connector and sure enough there were signs of 'green' corrosion so after some careful application of contact cleaner everything was nice & clean again. However, that didn't actually cure the cold starting issue.The actual problem was the small coolant temp sensor on the left hand side of the engine in front of the battery. I've had trouble with this in the past and it looked like the two small pins were not located properly so with a small pointy dentist type tool and some more contact cleaner everything was re-set.The result being the engine starts on the button no matter how cold it is and the added bonus is the very slight misfire I had over 7000 rpm has now also gone.I would like to replace the coolant temp sensor (if that is what it is called) but I'm not sure where I would get one from. Any ideas?Thanks again everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 8, 2016 Member Share Posted December 8, 2016 Well done.I would like to replace the coolant temp sensor (if that is what it is called) but I'm not sure where I would get one fromCan you add a photo with the connector off and on?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleSi Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 Will do - about to fly to Europe for a few days so will take a photo upon my return.The battle will be how to work out how to upload the photo onto here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 8, 2016 Member Share Posted December 8, 2016 Forum User Guide! :-)... fly to Europe..."to"?;-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Piers300 Posted December 8, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted December 8, 2016 Simon Well done finding the problem. For your sensor replacement, I would go to S&C or Red Line.Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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