griffchris Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Hi, 1st winter service underway on my 2015 420R, 2500 miles done:I had noticed a little drag on the offside front hub, and remembering stories of poorly greased bearings, I have removed the front caliper and hub, and taper bearings. (As it happens the hub ran much smoother once I removed the caliper so I don't think the bearings were the problem). Anyway, there is a little damage to the integrated rubber seal on the inner bearing so I have ordered new bearings from CC. The outer bearing cups are retained within the hub - do I need to remove these and replace or can I leave them in? If they need to be removed, do I need a bearing puller?Secondly I need to replace the rear brake pads. I have fixed copper brake lines - an initial dabble suggests that removing the caliper body to replace the pads may be difficult without potentially damaging the brake lines - am I missing something obvious here, is there another way to do it? I do have a piston wind back tool so hoping that won't be a problem!Thanks very much.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 3, 2016 Member Share Posted November 3, 2016 Secondly I need to replace the rear brake pads. I have fixed copper brake lines - an initial dabble suggests that removing the caliper body to replace the pads may be difficult without potentially damaging the brake lines - am I missing something obvious here, is there another way to do it? I do have a piston wind back tool so hoping that won't be a problem!It does seem strange, and if I were building again I'd fit flexible hoses. But it works out OK in practice: just be gentle.Maintenance notes from Alcester Racing Sevens.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I hope the inner bearing cups are retained in the hub too ! I would leave them in place as all is new and you are only replacing due to damaged seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 When you do need to replace the cups in the future ... you can drift them out with a suitable square ended drift (I use an internal door spindle) and a hammer ... there is a slot in the bore of the hub ... tap the cup one side then the other to keep it square. Fitting new cups ... put the cups in the freezer for 4 hours and the hub in a medium oven for half an hour ... helps them fit with much less effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 All good advice IMO. Stripped and checked the front hubs on my '15 car at 3000 miles after reading the same stories about bearings. One side was light on grease but there was no damage to anything so I would guess your inner races are fine unless there's obvious damage/wear.I replaced the Torx bolts on the calipers with 12.9 capheads. Just couldn't find torx sockets that fitted the originals properly. I would be interested to know if the OP did?Why are you changing the rear pads? A different brand or has the car had a hard life? Mine are fine at 3500 miles, three track days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffchris Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Thanks all, very useful.Scott, I never found a good fit for the torx heads so also replaced with 12.9 cap heads. Soooo much easier taking the calipers off yesterday!The rear pads are well worn, perhaps 3mm or less (I've done at least 5 track days this year), but the fronts have loads left. I'm replacing with Ferodo pads as recommended by Simon at Meteor.Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Of course, Chris, I remember the other thread now!By the way any recommendations for a suitable wind back tool, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 3, 2016 Member Share Posted November 3, 2016 I have one from Sealey.Several in the register of equipment for loan.But you're probably about to get suggestions that it can be done with pointy pliers, peg wrenches from circular saws etc.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Did you fit new bearings, or just a seal?You wouldn't normally fit a new race running on old cups. The parts bed together, individual bearings are slightly different, but within tolerance, so wear together in difference ways. Running new rollers on the old race is something I wold avoid, and if the original bearing was damaged, you are about to transfer that damage to the new inners.Admittedly, on 2500 miles a year, it might take a while to notice ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 From what I saw when I stripped mine there wouldn't be any significant wear at 2500 miles so I wouldn't think leaving the original race in there would be an issue at all. I'm sure the OP would have changed just the seal if it wasn't a fixed part of the bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted November 3, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted November 3, 2016 What Bricol says. Very bad practice not to change the complete bearing and likely to lead to premature failure. Its just an extra 5 minutes to drift out the old ones and replace.As an aside. 2500 miles and you need new rear pads!!!! Are you sure? I changed my rear pads at around 40k miles as part of a rebuild and they weren't strictly necessary as there was still life on the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 In normal circumstances I'd agree with you. But with what are basically new bearings being replaced because of a damaged seal I wouldn't be concerned. Well, that's one extreme to another!! 2500 miles v 40000!! I looked at mine briefly today, couldn't see too clearly but looked to be about 6mm so I would expect may be 10k in total including another couple of TDs. I wonder what's 'average'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr500dom Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Peter I have a caliper Wind back tool if you ever need to borrow it ;)Its pretty comprehensive, and will do most calipers, left handed or right handed wind back too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Cheers Dom, should have known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffchris Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yes fair enough, just popped the rear pads out and measured - they are at 5.5mm, not 3mm, so a bit of life left yet...Fronts look barely touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted November 4, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted November 4, 2016 They are not new bearings and they have a damaged seal. Why wouldn't you change the entire bearing when you have the parts in front of you? Seems like a no brainer to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 If the seal is damaged enough to need replacing, I'd be wary of contamination and hence wear, plus if the car is driven hard enough to need the pads changing at 2500miles . . . maybe do 'em fully next year at 5000 ;-) Not too sure what spec of bearings we're talking about here (my front ones are taper rollers, with separate felt seals) but you wouldn't usually mix up / swop cones and cups with brand new bearings, never mind previously enjoyed ones. Would certainly make our assembly/service engineers wince!I get involved in speccing rather expensive, large and precise bearings in machine design - quite an interesting subject. I tend to get nervous when bearings we need require a manufacturer to start production specially for us though ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I appreciate what your saying and agree that if there are signs of wear or damage from the damaged seal then the outer race should be changed. Being familiar with this bearing arrangement and the seal there's a good chance at that mileage that a full change wouldn't be necessary, IMO. All due respect but we aren't talking about the sort of bearings that you are involved in which sound quite interesting. This is a run of the mill thing that can be bought for less than a tenner. In fact the two parts can be bought separately if one wishes. Anyway, no wish to continue the argument, I'm sure the OP will find the right solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffchris Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 I'm resurrecting this thread to comment on rear pad wear, as discussed above.Did my 1st track day of the year at Oulton Park on Tuesday, and have now totalled around 2700 miles including 6 track days, running the OEM 420 pads. I recorded the rear pads at somewhere between 3 and 5.5mm over the winter but can't be sure whether this was inner or outer - but there was definitely some inner pad left at that time.On the journey home I could hear quite a bit of rear brake squealing, and on checking both rear inner pads have competely gone and are metal on metal. The outer pads are 3mm drivers side and 5mm passenger side. I know it is said that the inner pads tend to wear faster as they contact the disc first and drag the outer pad into contact - but is this degree of disparity to be expected?The handbrake seems to operate OK and I can spin the rear wheel around 1/2 a turn after letting go so I don't think the brakes are dragging.I have ferodo pads from Meteor to replace them with- is it OK to put these on the rear whilst keeping the OEM pads at the front - they are barely touched. Any views?CheersChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Can't comment on the pad wear rate, sorry. But I would swap to original spec pads because Caterham does fit a different pad material on the rear if you have standard or uprated front brakes so a change of pad material at the rear will alter the brake bias. The change in bias might be a good thing or a bad thing, but keeping to the original will ensure you current setup remains, and possibly save you having to change again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 With rigid brake lines ... the inner pads wear faster on the rear brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffchris Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 Yes good comment, I've searched the archives and seen similar comments so have just ordered 2 flexible brake hoses - I had planned to do this at some point in the future but might as well got on with it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 That's normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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