Squealing Brakes

[dpomeroy]

I took delivery of my (first) Caterham 270S on 1/3/16 having purchased it from Williams Automobiles in Bristol. The car was a factory build by Caterham.

Ever since taking delivery, the car has been plagued by EXTREMELY squeaky brakes and it really is spoiling my enjoyment of the vehicle as I am very conscious that applying the brakes will cause anyone nearby to look what the hell is happening! My kids no longer want to travel in the car for this problem.

The dealer says the brakes need bedding in, however I have now completed over 500 miles and have tried breaking heavily repeatedly to bed them in, but this doesn't seem to have improved it at all. It is particularly bad when I break lightly - in traffic say. 

I love driving the car, but I am now starting to question whether I am going to keep it or not - just down to the brakes and the noise they make.

I am not particularly technically minded (that's why I got Caterham to build it) Please can anyone help or make some suggestions or should I just take it back!

[SM25T]

File a small 45-degree chamfer on the leading edge of the brake pads. Put a smear of Copaslip on the BACK of the pad backplates where they contact the caliper ears or piston. Is this a new build ... so unlikely to have a mismatch between old (brake pad) friction material on surface of discs and new pads ? Maybe a change of pads on the front will help.

[SM25T]

But .... you bought it from a dealer. Take it back .... not happy with the product.

[ScottR400D]

I guess you could take it back to the dealer but what Ian suggests often works. Which is easiest?

[colindavies56]

take it back,i thought if you touch it yourself,the warrantee is void.that goes for mainstream cars.

[JAL]

My 360R was exactly the same when I collected it from CC south. I drove the car for 1500 miles to bed the brakes in before I went back and asked CC to remove and clean the brakes and file the 45 degree angle at the front of the pads. The result? silent brakes for about 200 miles before it returned exactly the same.

The annoying thing about the 360R (and your 270S is probably the same) is that you cannot remove the brake pads without removing the cycle wings and I refuse to start taking a brand new car apart already.

I've learned to live with it and after 4500 miles it is a lot better. I use an air spray on the brakes and this helps a lot. The great thing about a 7 is you don't need the brakes that much! The first service is due at 6k so I'll revisit the problem then.

If anyone has a cure that does not involve disassembly then I'd be interested.

Buds

 

[thompster]

I stuck 3m Anti-squeal pads on the back of my pads and copper-slipped on the edges and it seems to have worked. You can get enough for two sets on ebay for about £6.  Alternatively I imagine a softer pad would probably be less squeal-prone?

[SM25T]

Need to remove cycle wings to access brake pads ????? That's a retrograde step !!

[Jonathan Kay]

take it back,i thought if you touch it yourself,the warrantee is void.that goes for mainstream cars.

It's not that absolute because you have rights beyond any warranty. But for something like this you'd be wise to talk to the supplier first.

Jonathan

[JAL]

Need to remove cycle wings to access brake pads ????? That's a retrograde step !!

The support arms for the cycle wings block access to the pins. Stupid design IMHO and as JK points out its not worth messing with whilst the car is under warranty.

Buds 

[SM25T]

Can they be inserted from the outside face to avoid this in future ?

[ScottR400D]

Does this vary model to model? On my car it looks like the top pin will just clear the wing stay. 

[Jonathan Kay]

Any photos... preferably showing an attempt to remove the pins?

Jonathan

[dpomeroy]

Thanks for all your input.

Have booked it in with Williams on Friday 1st - will report back to see if they can cure it!!

[martyn]

Unfortunately the squealing is a normal side effect of pads intended to be used at sustained high temperatures (on track).  You'll probably notice that when the brakes are hot they don't make a sound.

If you don't intend to use the car on track then ask them to fit some more road biased pads.

My brakes squeal like mad if I gently roll up to some traffic lights.  Its just one of those characterful things that you sign up for when you buy a "race car for the road". 

[TomB]

You need to remove the wing to change the pads?  Thats absurd, surely an unfit design for servicing?   

[ScottR400D]

My R400 doesn't do it, never has. Is this thread more to do with the standard brakes, as opposed to the 4 pots? 

[martyn]

I've got the AP 4 pots circa 2008.  The wingstay does obscure the extraction of the retaining pin.  It even makes that very clear in the assembly guide to ensure everything is assembled in the correct order.  I can’t believe this is news to everyone.

However you don't need to remove the wing.  You simply undo the upper calliper bolt and loosen the bottom one.  Then the whole calliper can be rotated rearward where the pin will then clear the wingstay.

Sorry scott..  I thought you were referring to the wing / retaining pin thing and not the squealing.  I guess there are many factors that determine the amount of noise a pad makes.  Type of pad being a big factor.  I've also had pads that have started squealing as they've got older and got continuously worse until they were changed.

If they're making ridiculous noise then sure look into changing something to sort it out.  But personally I'm happy to compromise and accept a bit of a squeak when cold and used lightly if I means I can fit the pads that I like.

[ScottR400D]

No problem Martyn.

I was talking about the squealing but I'm quite intrigued by this thread and I've just had a look at my car, which has the newest 4 pots. The top pin doesn't come out because the stay is in the way. I thought it might wriggle past but I tried and it won't.

As you say it's easier to move the caliper than remove the stay. I see what you mean but in my case the caliper is bolted on radially, not from the side so it would probably need both bolts removing and the caliper pulling straight out until the pin could be removed.

In answer to the earlier question, with these brakes the pins can't be put in from the other side, they are held in by a split ring mechanism and will only go one way.

 

[DJ.]

That is a pain, surely a redesign of the wing stay is required! The standard callipers make pad changes easy, but can squeal just as badly. When I swapped to Mintex pads, I didn't use the self adhesive pads supplied as the originals didn't have them. The squealing was deafening. I took them out, used the anti-squeal pads and they were almost silent

[Jonathan Kay]

Who is going to discuss the access with the factory?

Jonathan

[dpomeroy]

Thanks Martyn - makes sense to a complete novice like me and is as expected following discussions! You are correct that if I get them hot, the noise stops!

I will take the car on the track - when I pluck up the courage to take my new toy there (after fitting a new track day roll bar). However I spec'd it as a road car with the road pack and not the race pack so I would expect the brakes to work well on the road and not embarrass me at the traffic lights!

If I have to change the brakes I will - or at least will probably have to pay someone else to do it - all this talk of pins above is totally confusing me...... :-)

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I don't know about 270Ss, but there's an excellent introduction to 7 brakes from Alcester Racing 7s.

Jonathan

[Gary Stone]

Release the two caliper bolts. Take one all the way out. (can't remember which one) Then swivel the caliper to allow the retaining pin which is obstructed by the wing stay to be taken out. Simples 

Works for me.