Alan Bowler Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Academy racers skimmed heads to boost the compression ratio? - wow. Not sure you could sensibly outlaw that, given that a large number of K's have needed skims after HGF over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 There appears to have been two different Super grad cars per the Graduates website over the years. Current super grads seem to have std engines producing 125bhp. Cant see anything about engine mods is that for the original super grad that is now in megas ?Quote from Graduates website In 2001, the championship spawned a second class - Super-Graduates - based on an up-rated Caterham Academy car. In 2003, Super-Graduates became Mega-Graduates and a new Super-Graduate class was formed for the latest spec of standard ex-Academy cars Super Graduates nowSuper-Graduates is for cars which originally competed in the Caterham Academy between 2001 and 2007. The cars have DeDion rear suspension and a 1600cc Rover K-series engine producing around 125bhp. They run on stickier Yokohama A048R tyres and may have an optional rear anti-roll bar. New for 2013 – windscreens may be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Causey Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I share Clive's position as outlined above.I think a '130 bhp' limit (irrespective of how it's worded) is as likely to put off Sigma owners as it is to encourage them and I'm still struggling to see the need given that Rob has demonstrated, very clearly, that a standard Sigma is very competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team robj Posted November 19, 2014 Leadership Team Share Posted November 19, 2014 The estimate is £1500 to refresh and bring an ex-academy k-series engine to super-grads spec, and apparently it will improve a k-series by up to 10 bhp, depending on cleanliness of the current head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bowler Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 A refresh is applicable to any engine, and shouldn't mean a class change.£1500 sounds about right, as its time consuming and good engine builders aren't cheap. 10bhp gain will apply to a tired one, and will diminsh over time back towards zero (apart from possible CR benefit of a skim). How you can differentiate between maintenance (if your head or entire engine fails on a K or any other engine you'll fit a new or refreshed one as well) and pre-emptive optimisation gets a bit difficult to differentiate IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team robj Posted November 19, 2014 Leadership Team Share Posted November 19, 2014 The refresh alone is £500 and does not involve any modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 How often / when does a K series or Sigma car with circa 125 bhp need a refresh? What is included in a refresh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team robj Posted November 19, 2014 Leadership Team Share Posted November 19, 2014 If racing about every 2 seasons, doing speed events much less often (5+ years) at a guess, and it is a full head rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Miller 7 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'd expect to pay more than £420 plus VAT for a refresh? For a good engine builder I'm sure you're looking at £1K plus the bits by the time you pay VAT.Next season will be season 5 for me on this engine build and I have had zero oil use and zero power loss so I think your engine would have to be very tired or old to warrant a refresh. I can't see anyone doing it as "optimisation".Another question I have is what is the difference between tidying up the head (which is what was done to my VHPD head) and porting (as in what's banned in the rules for classes 1 to 3). I would say nothing as if you touch the internals with some emery paper then in theory, you've modified it and therefore it could be classed as "porting". I'm probably splitting hairs here and it's most likely irrelevant in the context of class 1.Anyway - back to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Out of interest. Anybody able to recommend somewhere to do k series up grades, idealy in a northerly direction. engine currently completely std and sealed. Just thinking on for class 2 mods if time and finances will allow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Scorer Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You are probably only looking at new CAMS & verniers, Might be worth talking to Dave Gemzoe, other than that not sure or anyone else. in the north...Other option would be Northampton Motorsport or similar in the midlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted November 24, 2014 Area Representative Share Posted November 24, 2014 You are probably only looking at new CAMS & verniers'potentially a contentious issue.... If you're looking for class leading class 2/3 performance, then you'll also need to be looking at the ECU. The standard ECU has the 6800 rev limit where the Supersport ECU has a 7600 rpm limit (and a 1600SS needs to be reved to the limiter).Largely, the quicker 1600's also have ported heads.Arguably, to get the best out of a 1600ss, you also need the close ratios of a six speed 'box.If you were to convert to 1800ss, then it's likely to cope a little better with a five speed 'box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Sorry that was meantvas more of a question than a statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Thanks both. Not trying to be at all contentious. Literally just interested in where people get k series work done. Richard - I wouldn't be trying to achieve a class leading car, more trying to work out what is the minimum I could get away with to still have a vaguely competitive car. For financial reasons I would prefer not to swap to 6 speed so had wondered about finding an 1800 engine. Also that way, I could just swap for my 1600 and then when I come to sell my car I can swap back to the std sealed engine. Finding an 1800 for sale is a slightly different matter! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Banana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Not wishing to throw a spanner in the works...but would I be ok for Class 1 in my 2014 Academy car with its VVC sigma engine and MX5 gearbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 how much BHP is the VVC Sigma - assuming the regs are as originally posted in the PDF it woud have to be <125 bhpGearbox as far as i can tell as long as it is not 6 speed should be ok (again according to the regs as posted)plus list 1 a tyres of courserob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think that Northern Banana has the new (2014) standard academy car, which as far as i'm aware is <125BHP and a 5 speed. so would be class 1, but i'm sure the New, Newer or Old Comp Sec will be along to confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Banana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Only a couple have been on the rollers and they made 123-125 bhp. The gear box ratios are a bit taller than the type 9 so probably a slight hinderance, apart from Aintree. CR322 tyres!! Gutted I thought I'd seen the back of those. Assume LSD's also a no no for Class 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 There is no control tyre so any List 1A tyre is allowed Upto 14" rims, Yokohama A539's in 185/60r13 is the tyre of choice.LSD's are no problem and can be fitted.you also can run an Aeroscreen in replacement to a full windscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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