BurwellSupersport Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi, I've now had my Supersport for 4 months and am loving it (2000 miles so far, including a semi regular - and now more fun - 45 mile work commute). But...I tried to start it on Sunday morning (after a fun drive) without luck. All is well up to the point i turn the key to start (imobiliser deactivated, pumps whiring etc) when all that happens is a rapid fire clicking from the engine bay. I've tried again this evening with the same result.After an internet (and forum) search I believe its either the solenoid not engaging properly or the starter motor, does anyone have any tips as to how/where I troubleshoot? Am i barking up the wrong tree (and how do I find out)?One of the potential causes is that my brother bundled into the car in his usual "gracious" manner on Saturday and stuffed his bag above his knees, I cant see that he dislodged anything obvious (the flasher repeater was suspiciously displaced...) and i've pushed everything back into place. I've also charged the battery (to eliminate that as a variable- its only 2 years/2400 miles old)The car will "bump/push" start (i needed to to get it home) so I dont think the issue is further downstream than solenoid/starter.Any tips would be gratefully appreciated, I'm a relative novice when it comes to engines etc (thats one of the reasons I bought the car - to learn).Thanks in advance!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 14, 2014 Member Share Posted October 14, 2014 There is a widely observed fault that causes this. The relay in the MFRU fails and doesn't feed enough smoke to the solenoid. Fixes are available. Check your battery voltage at rest, during the attempt to start and at 3,000 rpm so we can be sure that isn't the problem. Check all relevant feeds and earths: visual inspection and see if anything is loose and tighten it. Then, if that hasn't fixed it, disconnect them all, clean the surfaces and reconnect.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3MCJez Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 One of the relays/fuses has been moved by your clumsy brother. Jez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patneale Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 It just sounds as if as previously suggested that somehow not enough current is getting to the starter motor. Perhaps Jonathan is right and a relay is not passing enough current. OR both batteries are not good enough. Banner batteries seem a bit weak and run down very quickly and I now always leave my car on a "conditioner" type of charger in the garage. I have had at least 4 Banners since 2003 and 49,000 miles.I bought my Halfords "Conditioner" type charger many years ago and the lead from the battery is connected to the back of the lower wishbone with cable tyes. It has a male and female connector with a protective cover and so easy to plug into the charger connector and avoids having to open the bonnet. Just remember to detach when you move the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy bell Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 my car has an isolator and my battery died. It wouldnt trickle charge (something i bought after i had car a while) and even when i tried to jump start and voltage was reporting as ok it didnt start the Caterham. In the end i replaced battery and it was 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 15, 2014 Member Share Posted October 15, 2014 I was going to write "That's why it's always worth adding those voltage checks, even when you've got a good idea that the problem is something else."But: and voltage was reporting as ok: more details on what you observed, please, Andy.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy bell Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 here is one I prepared earlier - no two: here is me trying to start it just on its own https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3367A05C9688F391!1910&authkey=!AKuuX5igB2MDpdU&ithint=video%2cmp4 here is me with it jumped to a running car https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3367A05C9688F391!2000&authkey=!AJovXPFFIZctjAE&ithint=video%2cmp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 15, 2014 Member Share Posted October 15, 2014 Tried both those links... "Sorry, something went wrong". Do they include voltages on cranking?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy bell Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 i had some issue in first post try a ctrl-f5 (in IE not sure about others) to force a refresh. as for voltages cant remember sorry i think they read normal :/ http://1drv.ms/1w7byji http://1drv.ms/1w7bzDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Thanks for the tips guys. I had already contacted Caterham about this and disapointingly they suggested (in their first response) that i needed a new starter for £260 + VAT... Jonathan I'll definitey be looking through all your suggestions before i take that option. In terms of the MFRU issue, how do i prove that? (I assume the acroynm is MainFuseRelayUnit).Jez, as you can tell i'm quite suspicious of my brothers gracious entry to the car... everything looks ok but i'll take them all out and put them back in again on Saturday just to prove it.Pat, some good ideas there. After trying Jonathan's thoughts i'll try jump starting the car from the daily driver and then may well copy your suggestion.I cant see the contents of the links either, a shame as i'm sure they're helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 16, 2014 Member Share Posted October 16, 2014 MFRU: Multi Function Relay Unit (although if unreliable other options for the first two letters are available). I'm not sure how it works on your car but somewhere there's a relay that feeds the solenoid. When you've done the simple bits there's a direct diagnostic test of running a new jump wire direct from the battery to the solenoid. You're not at this point yet, but here's the fix from Alcester Racing Sevens.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Have you got the wiring diagram for a Sigma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks Jonathan, I'll use my imagination for the first two letters, i imagine they will "evolve" as tomorrow's investigation progresses... ChrisC - I havent found a good one yet, do you have one to hand? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 17, 2014 Member Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've got the 2010 and 2012 Assembly Guides which have wiring diagrams. Send me a private message with your email address if you'd like them. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 17, 2014 Member Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sent. Jonathan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks Jonathan, recieved with grateful thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I have the hard copy, send me your email address and I can scan it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hi All, in the end it was due to an ID10T issue due to PICNIC (Problem in Cockpit, not in Caterham). It was the battery. Thank you all for your advice on this. Pat, i'm going to follow your advice in the winter and do the same. How did you connect it to the battery? did you "just" cut the wires from the charger/conditioner? Any chance of some photos (Battery, lower wishbone connection without charger, lower wishbone with it connected)? Thank you again. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 30, 2014 Member Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well done.Most people who use conditioning chargers fit a "cigar lighter" socket under the dash in front of the passenger side. That can be used for charging the battery (without removing the bonnet) and to power 'phones, satnav devices, inspection lamps etc. If you want to do it that way there are lots of details in the archives. Do you have a battery master switch and would you like USB power?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 1. There is a widely observed fault that causes this. The relay in the MFRU fails and doesn't feed enough smoke to the solenoid. Fixes are available. Out of interest, do the Sigma variants use the same (Rover) MFRU as the Ks?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyD Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Glad you got it sorted. I'd also recommend a 12v socket in the passenger footwell and using a battery conditioner that has a suitable adapter. I use a CTEK conditioner that has an optional adapter, like this. Makes using the conditioner so quick and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi John, Not sure (not having had a K Series). Happy to take a picture if that helps. Andy, thanks for that. Seems like a winter project to me (i was just about to search for guidance about how to do it in the forums) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurwellSupersport Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi John, Not sure (not having had a K Series). Happy to take a picture if that helps. Andy, thanks for that. Seems like a winter project to me (i was just about to search for guidance about how to do it in the forums) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 My query was really aimed at Jonathan (oh for a proper quote tool on this new site!), but a picture is always welcome and will help others, so thanks for the offer.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 4, 2014 Member Share Posted November 4, 2014 On the MFRU: I don't know what the relay is like on 7s with Sigma or Duratec engines. I don't know about the comparative failure rate... and it woud be hard to work it out. Have there been any failures on post-K cars?SorryJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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