c7ollie Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I am not the most knowledgeable mechanic in the world but in an effort to get my starter motor singing like a normal car ie get rid of the click of death, I have wired a separate relay which means the car now starts every time but on the first turn of the engine, it turns as though the battery is virtually flat (which it's not) before firing up the engine. I'm still not confident of it starting every time. I am now stripping down the starter motor to clean the contacts and grease it up etc but when I removed it, I noticed that the flywheel is bone dry with rust staining. The cog that engages the flywheel is black and dry. Could someone tell me if this is normal, is the flywheel supposed to be coated in oil? or grease? Or sloshing about in anything? What grease do you recommend for the starter and is the flywheel ok? It's a rover K Series 1.8 with a 4-2-1 exhaust. Once done, I am going to wrap the starter in heatproof shielding and hopefully it will be sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 You don't want oil or grease on the flywheel, because the clutch has to grip onto it without slipping. Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks Duncan, I'm glad I asked. Like I said, I'm no mechanic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 You dont want grease anywhere near your starter bendix either. Each time the clutch engages/disengages there is a certain amount of dust given off from driven plate, this will stick to and mix with any grease on the bendix gumming the whole assy up. The bendix should be scrupiously clean (washes in white spirit) and should snap back and fwd under its internal spring. Greasing it is a very common mistake which I have seen on many cars with starter problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks Johnty, I'll follow your advice then just clean and lightly grease the solenoid parts with high temp grease. If you have any thoughts as to why the starter seems to strain/sluggish on the first turn, I'd appreciate it. Starter Relay done and connections checked New live battery cable (with no melted bits where it touched the exhaust) bought Starter stripped and cleaned Battery reads 12v on a battery tester but is 3ish years old. Before I put it all back together is there anything else I could/should check or do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted October 24, 2012 Member Share Posted October 24, 2012 Quoting c7ollie: Battery reads 12v on a battery tester but is 3ish years old.Get a decent meter. Charge the battery. Stop charging. What's the voltage with the engine not running? What's the voltage (lowest reading) as you use it to start the car? 12.0V when fully charged and not running is low. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 12v under those conditions is crap battery is knackered. Should be 12.5 min.Better at 12.7 Oh and don't think .5 is irrelevant it's massive in Battery terms. At 12v its only 25% charged. Johnty State of Charge Specific Gravity Voltage 12V 6V 100%. 1.265 12.7 6.3 75% 1.225 12.4 6.2 50%. 1.190 12.2 6.1 25% 1.155 12.0 6.0 Discharged 1.120 11.9 6.0 Edited by - Johnty Lyons on 24 Oct 2012 18:59:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks, i will get a decent meter and try it. The meter I have is only basic. For belt and braces I'm going to connect the relay directly to the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 you may have done this, but don't forget to be as scrupulous about checking/cleaning up the earth path as well, the current needs to be able to go as fast as it comes 😳 as it were 😬 Tim Edited by - tbird on 25 Oct 2012 00:27:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ok so... Starter cleaned and lubed appropriately (not sure it needed it) New red and black battery cables Clean terminals everywhere else Starter relay now running off the battery with a fuse rather than scotchlocked off of the MFRU Battery after full charge is somewhere between 12 and 13v on a basic battery tester When starting it drops to 5v approx based on the basic battery meter I think there has been an improvement but need to get blatting to really find out. I'm not 100% convinced but only time will tell (starter heat shield is on order) All cables tied away from the manifold Is it right that the battery drops to 5v during starting? Thank for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Amazed it starts if it drops to 5V. ECU doesn't usually want to play if the battery is that sick. Edit - have you checked the liquid levels in each cell - if a wet type battery. Edited by - Stationary M25 Traveller on 29 Oct 2012 21:53:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 The battery cells have a few mm of fluid above the cells, not the 10mm suggested by banner and about 5-7mm below the marker. Will this make a big difference or has the battery had it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavena Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 At the start of the post you said: I am not the most knowledgeable mechanic in the world but in an effort to get my starter motor singing like a normal car ie get rid of the click of death, I have wired a separate relay which means the car now starts every time but on the first turn of the engine, it turns as though the battery is virtually flat (which it's not) before firing up the engine. I'm still not confident of it starting every time. Before you added the separate relay did the engine start well or not - just want to check as its not 100% clear? On batteries - my experience is that when a battery is failing you can do all sorts of things that seem to improve it (ie convincing yourself that the battery is ok). Ultimately the easiest thing to do is check using another battery which you know is ok and if that works properly - buy a new battery! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Somewhere between 12 and 13 Get a grip man the difference between a fully charged and a completly flat battery is in those figures we are looking for .1 of a volt here. And WTF is a basic battery tester you need a good calibrated digital meter. It totall amazes me when you ask for help and your given info that folk dont read what was written, but still faff around. Go back and read all the posts on this thread, then do some basic tests to confirm the health of you battery. Sometimes at my age I despair of folks on these forums. And yes I'm outspoken and a crotchety old git. But hey I'll not be around much longer so I don't GAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Now tell the truth Jonty, you'r just after "Best Technical Advice contribution - Blatchat (Tech Talk)" Award Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Pardon my ignorance and sorry to offend 😶🌫️ Now I understand the table you posted earlier 100% - 75% etc. I've got a digital meter now so will cross reference against your table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 No offence taken and as you'll discover on here my bark is 1000 times worse than my bite. I've just been around far too long, most sensible folk ignore me. 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7ollie Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 13.4v after full charge dropping to 8.7v while starting then 14.6v while running. I topped up the cells to the marker (nearly 1/4 litre in all) immediate improvement to 10v during starting and then after faffing around fitting a cigarette lighter for dashboard charging, the voltage during starting only dropped to 12v I have left it charging (maintaining) over night but I think I'm done. When I think about it I can't ever remember starting the car so many times in a row without a problem. I think my work here is done! Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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