Advice on engine upgrade path

[gundersen]

Hi,

 

I know its a bit early, but I am beginning to think about what upgrades to give my engine next winter.

Currently I have a 1.8l 140bhp X-power with plenum and stock exhaust.

I am aiming at 200bhp (nice round figure ), but I will probably get there in increments.

 

Currently I am considering getting a ported head and an Emerald this winter. I don't know if I should use my current head, or get a VVC head for better "upgradeability"...or should I be starting somewhere else entirely, perhaps get a whole engine?

 

Lots of questions, not much knowledge on my part so advice is very welcome 😬

 

ps. Selling the car and buying a larger specced one is not an option...however cheaper it may be in the long run

[charlie_pank]

Hi, I'd recommend getting an Emerald and an LC-1 wideband first. Get them talking to each other happily and implement the self-mapping tool, then you'll be able to make the most of whatever changes you make further down the line.

 

 

There's good info about upgrade paths for this engine on the DVA website, my first upgrade after that was a bespoke 4-2-1 exhaust manifold.

[Mankee]

Standard pistons turn into chocolate at about 160bhp I think, so that's going to be a bit of a limitation if you are aiming for 200bhp. Could go for forged pistons or buy a complete VVC 160 engine with the Trophy pistons and you can then use the head from that engine as well. But you'll need a one-piece inlet camshaft and a blanking kit if you want to get rid of the VVC mechanisms.

 

What cams does a 140bhp X-Power engine use? I assume something slightly wilder than the bog standard K-series cams, maybe TF135 or Supersport-spec? One of DVA's Jenvey DTH/Emerald kits and a good exhaust might be a good start, as you'll have the breathing and management sorted out as well as a few extra BHP. And in the mean time, you can build up the new engine and simply swap them over.

 

That's pretty much the path I've taken with mine, although the previous owner helpfully spent the money on the Jenveys and Emerald, so I didn't have to lash out for that!

[Dignity]

What ever you do/buy make sure that you will not need to replace it as you upgrade further.

I would go for throttle bodies, Emerald and a decent 4-2-1 exhaust before touching the engine.

This in theory is good for 160bhp.

The next step would mean considering bottom end strength ie forged pistons, uprated bearings and rods etc. It would make sense to do this at the same time as the head work as, this way, you will only need to crack the engine open once.

As you said it's not the cheapest path but can be very rewarding gradually turning your pride and joy into a beast.

Personally I would look for a VVC head because 200bhp is not going to be enough

Whatever power you have it is never enough.

 

As Charlie has said it's well worth reading all the info on the DVA website

[tweeky]

talk to oilyhands AKA dva power he ported my head with different cams and verniers

 

[gundersen]

 

Thanks for all the input, it was amazingly fast

 

Quoting charlie_pank: 

I'd recommend getting an Emerald and an LC-1 wideband first

Could be a good starting point...has the added benefit that it is an area where I feel more at home than among pistons, liners and all that mechanical stuff

 

Quoting Mankee: 

Standard pistons turn into chocolate at about 160bhp I think, so that's going to be a bit of a limitation if you are aiming for 200bhp

That is too bad, I had hoped that 200 was reachable without bottom end work...however if it is "just" the pistons its not that expensive.

 

Quoting Mankee: 

What cams does a 140bhp X-Power engine use?

I think the only difference between the X-Power and the normal spec is the cams and the ECU. I have been told that the cams are very similar to the SS cams, but not exactly the same.

 

Quoting Dignity: 

I would go for throttle bodies, Emerald and a decent 4-2-1 exhaust before touching the engine.

I am no pro mechanic, so this kind of work is much more manageable than splitting the engine and upgrading the innards 😬 Could be the way to go!

 

Regarding DVA, been reading his page many many many times since I got the car and he would be the obvious place to start, however I would like to have some kind of idea where I am going before I bother him with my beginner questions

[CageyH]

I had DVA fit the Jenveys, Emerald and vernier pulleys to my 1.6 SS engine.

This was on a 4-2-1 exhaust. I then upgraded the Emerald to a K3.

Next step was an LC-1.

 

As for the bottom end, I fitted a VHPD engine.

It's probably around 200 Bhp, and is plenty fast enough for road use.

[Ozzy]

If ultimately, you're really looking for 200bhp, then I'd start with the block/head first. Pistons/crank/rods/head ported etc. Yes, it'll be more expensive to start with, but you really need to know, that whatever you do, the engines ready for it. All the other stuff, you can bolt on afterwards, as and when you have the cash. I can't see any point in bolting bits on, and then your engine lets go!

 

Oz

[charlie_pank]

Disagree

 

If you're ultimately looking for 200bhp, you still want to do it in steps where you feel the difference each time.

 

Step 1 has get to be emerald and lc-1 - then you can get the self-mapping running and learn how to tweak the maps, get yourself a better map for the current setup - then whenever you do anything else to the engine/inlet/exhaust you can immediately take advantage of it.

 

If, conversely you get the engine work done first, you'll not feel any difference because you won't be able to change your fueling or the rev-limit. If you have bigger ports and you can't up the fueling accordingly you might even go slower!

 

 

 

Edited by - charlie_pank on 5 Jun 2012 17:00:18

[Ozzy]

 

Just my opinion!

 

You can quite easily get that engine to 180 by bolting bits on. After about 2 weeks, you'll feel it's not enough, and then you'll push it harder & harder on the rev limit! Then your engine will be at serious risk, because the standard pistons won't take it.

 

However, forget all you've read on here, get a qualified opinion and talk to Oily!

 

Oz.

[Dignity]

Quoting ozzy: 

 

However, forget all you've read on here, get a qualified opinion and talk to Oily!

 

Oz.

 

 

Best advice so far

[Supersprint1988]

Hi Bo

 

Are you tempted *tongue*

 

Cheers

Carsten

 

Edited by - Supersprint1988 on 5 Jun 2012 18:17:20

[gundersen]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice all way around.

[gundersen]

Quoting Supersprint1988: 

Are you tempted *tongue*

Thats just plain mean 😬

Yes I did see the advert, and the engine looks very sweet. However its stretching the budget (being a one-time purchase instead of incremental upgrades), and I kind of like the idea of doing it myself...or at least bits of it

[CageyH]

Just remember, it's an expensive process, which you won't get much return on.

It may be cheaper in the long run to p/x your car for an R3/400.

 

Just read the last line of your first post....

 

Edited by - CageyH on 5 Jun 2012 19:14:31

[david nelson]

There are so many ways to do this. I would start with throttle bodies and ecu. It just bolts on and is quite cheap. It also means no one messes around with your current engine.

 

I would then look for an engine that will be of the right spec. Put you current engine away for either returning the seven to origanal spec if you need to sell or if the new engine goes pop.

 

David

[gundersen]

@CageyH: Yes, unfortunately (unreasonable) high car registration taxes in Denmark makes a p/x a VERY expensive solution

 

Again, thank you all for the input