petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Can anybody help me work out what the problem with my car is? I took it out of the garage at the weekend. I wasn’t expecting a trouble free start as I had only used the car briefly the weekend before and not for two weeks before that, which is usually about the limit of what I can get away with from the battery without using the jumpstart. However the car did start initially at least. It started but then as soon as I let the revs fall off it stopped. I started it a couple more times, this time keeping the revs up in Neutral for a minute or so but got the same result when I took my foot off the accelerator to put the car into gear. I figured a drive might sort it out so put it into gear and started it up again and drove off. 50m from home, on a steep downward slope, I came to a T-junction and couldn’t avoid letting the revs fall again. This time I couldn’t restart the car. I could hear the starter motor whirring but the engine would not fire up. Adding an external power source made no difference. Anybody know what the problem might be? I don’t think it is the battery since (1) It did start the car initially (2) A jumpstart doesn’t help (3) I can hear the starter motor whirring. Similarly, I don’t think it is the starter as (1) The car started initially (2) I can hear it. However the fact that the car started initially, albeit only as long as I kept the revs up, but now won’t start at all implies that it is a problem that has got worse the more I tried it, consistent with a low battery or similar. Any suggestions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 You say you can "hear the starter motor whirring" - is it actually turning the engine over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 No. I'm embarrassed by my lack of technical knowledge but a simple "whirring" as I press the starter button (I have keyless ignition) is the best way I can describe it. The engine is not turning over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyCoulson Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Sounds like the starter motor is not engaging. Have you tried hitting it? This does work in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Strangely I had almost exactly the same problem restarting my 1963 Massey Ferguson at the weekend 😬 Simply charging the battery did the trick so I'm guessing it just didn't quite have enough grunt to throw the thing into engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto Si Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The starting problem sounds like battery. When using the jump leads are you getting a really good clean connection? When you connect the last negative connection to an earth point on the chassis/engine is there some sparking? If not the jump leads aren't doing anything to help. As for the revs dropping this could be related or could be something totally unrelated. Good luck Beaulieu #28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Maybe I will try hitting it tonight ! However that wouldn't explain why it started initially but only as long as I kept the revs up. It seems too much of a coincidence to have suddenly had 2 separate problems to do with starting the car almost simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yes, I am getting sparking from the jump leads so I don't think it is a lack of power problem. I've also often found myself starting the car where the battery has died just enough to not be able to start the car and that does sound very different (clicking rather than whirring). Many thanks for all the suggestions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Are you sure that the 'whirring' you are hearing is the starter motor spinning and not just the fuel pump priming? - Sorry but you do say that you don't have much mechanical knowledge! back here because I want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 No apology necessary especially since No, I'm not at all sure !!!!!! Does that change anything? I still feel the problem can't lie in the battery or starter though given the points at the start of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Whirring from fuel pump: Comes from back of car Happens when you switch ignition on, before you press the start button/turn the key to the furthest position Lasts about 5 seconds (ish) Whirring from starter motor: Comes from engine bay Happens when you press the start button/turn the key to the furthest position and stops as soon as you let go To test whether the engine is being turned over by the starter motor: 1) Make sure you have nothing in front of you - if the car starts you will be off down the road in first gear! 2) Put the car in 1st gear 3) Release the handbrake 3) Try to start the car If the car moves forwards at all then the starter motor is engaging and turning the engine over. You could also check this by having a look at the alternator drive belt while the car is in neutral and someone else tries to start it. If the drive belt moves, then the engine is being turned over by the s/motor. Your symptoms **could** be battery/alternator related - if the alternator's providing no charge, then the car would run for a bit as the battery would provide the spark, but would have a tendency to die at low revs, and would ultimately die and refuse to start again. If it does turn out that this is the problem, it's either because some cable has fallen off the alternator, or the alternator itself is toast. If you put a completely unrelated battery in the car, does it start and run ok, provided you keep the revs up? back here because I want to be. Edited by - charlie_pank on 20 Oct 2009 11:16:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 FYI: Whirring is from starter motor Engine is not being turned over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So the solenoid is not throwing far enough It's a fairly easy to take the starter motor off and have a good look at it and all its connections. You can also dismantle bits of the solenoid and have a look at it/clean it up. I'm surprised that the motor is spinning if the solenoid is not engaged, I thought that the connection for the motor was only made if the solenoid managed to throw all the way. back here because I want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Do starter pinions and/or ring gears still break? Is the starter throwing and turning because it's not engaging with a suitable tooth on the ring gear or that the turny-cog-thing is broken? You could put it in gear and give it a shove to see if the engine moves round at all and start again. could the engine be siezed? 😳 Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpa Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 To check if the battery is foobar'd, just turn the headlamps on before pushing the starter button. If the battery is low/dodgy, the lights will dim significantly... Batteries can collapse/fail instantly, even if they seem fine at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfell Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The OP stated he did get the car to start and he drove it for 50m. He also said: "as I had only used the car briefly the weekend before and not for two weeks before that, which is usually about the limit of what I can get away with from the battery without using the jumpstart" To me it sounds like the battery. Is the battery maintained by a battery conditioner/trickle charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 The battery is maintained by a solar panel powered trickle charger but that doesn't appear to be enough. However in the past when the battery has been allowed to get too low and won't start the car (and shows different symptoms) , I have used a freestanding jumpstarter. This was fully charged (and producing sparks galore) but was still not able to get the car going on this occasion. But I come back to my point that the main reason I don't believe it can be battery (or starter) related is that this would not explain why the engine died after I had got it going the first few times but then let the revs fall. Many thanks for all your help. I think I should probably stop guessing and get the AA out for a professional opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Professional? Yup, but AA? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Rich Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 What is the car? Crossflow/VX/K/? carbs or engine management? After a long stand I have know alternator brushes to stick so that when engine starts battery is not topped up and starting problems get worse as starting does cane the batteries. Certainly a low battery can result in motor going round and not throwing bendix in--assuming it is a bendix starter. Might B able to offer a bit morre advise if more info available best of luck bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petereliot Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Its a K series. Roadsport 1.8 VVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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