Wil Akroyd Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi all, advice really needed. I have a 1.6 k thats had some tweeking at DVA to 155bhp, feeling the need for a bit more power (as you do) so emailed Dave and he reccomended an upgrade to 180bhp with he said would be the limit without putting the pistons at risk... then ha added the estimate.. £2800. Probably a fair price considering the hardware and time, but at a round about £100 per bhp gained I wondered if it would make a significant difference to performance ie £2800 worth? Or is there a better root to go down. If not i'd better get saving! 😬 C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 30, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 30, 2009 Will, Have you considered selling the car and buying a different car that already has more power? Do you currently have bits like big brakes, LSD, dry sump, wide track, adjustable platforms etc. I've known a couple of SLR's change hands with all those parts for around the £15k mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McGill Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Wil, I guessed this was your post before even reading who the 'author' was! How are things buddy (apart from underpowered!)? When are we next off to Anglesey? Soon I hope!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 30, 2009 Support Team Share Posted July 30, 2009 I guess that £2800 includes Jenvey throttle bodies and an Emerald ECU. Both of these are resusable should you wish to go for even more power at a later date. Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter clarke Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Will after a partial blow up of my 1600 I had Dave modify a new head for me and also put in forged pistons. Could have gone for 1800 but as he had forged pistons and rods for 1600 decided to stay will 1600; it also revs like crazy. As have wide track, nitrons, 6 speed LSD etc did not want to sell car. Results are a good 180 bhp and with 4-2-1 exhaust almost 140 torque, and very tractable. 5000 miles on and very pleased I did it. Lso changed to pprt for cooling and this is a great addition. Peter PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hi all, thanks for the responses. Richard, I understand what your saying, but I can't really sell the car right now, i've put quite a bit of effort and time into it and generally think it is a good car. Shaun. Good point didn't think of it like that. Peter, sounds good How much was your upgrade, I have the 4 -2 -1 powerspeed on the car and LSD, so that should save some money!! Think Dave has already done the head aswel. Would i be better off with dry sump for this upgrade or would my appollo do the job? Is wide track a worth while upgrade.. heard some people say it doesn't make too much difference? I'm also running 5speed as the cars more of a tourer/ weekend/ occasional track day car Thanks again! Wil 😬 C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Edited by - Wil Akroyd on 30 Jul 2009 16:05:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would keep the 155 bhp and change the gearbox to a 6 speeder . That will be a far greater benifit to the driving experience than another 25bhp but with a 5 speed box here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia joint AO with Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Have to agree with Richard. I added up all the go-faster bits I wanted to bolt on to my old 1.6K Academy car, and the bill came to about 6K! It made much better financial sense to sell the car intact as a balanced package and buy something already equipped with the stuff I wanted. Of course the other route is to spend your cash on tyres/trackdays/driver tuition. Better 😬 per £ ratio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 30, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 30, 2009 Would i be better off with dry sump for this upgrade or would my appollo do the job? Do you already have an apollo? If you're using the car on track, on anything like sticky tyres, then at least an apollo would be wise (it only takes one loss of lubrication around a corner at full chat to trash the bottom end) . Is wide track a worth while upgrade.. I don't think so. If I thought it would make a difference to my sprint and hillclimb times, then I would have had it years ago! Does it look nice, and stop the cycle wings rubbing on the indicator pods? Yes! Is it good value for money? No! cars more of a tourer/ weekend/ occasional track day car Six speed gearbox makes the car a lot of fun to drive! (more fun than an additional 25bhp!) Edited by - Richard Price on 30 Jul 2009 18:35:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 so 6 speeder for £1100 - £1500 would be best/value for money. Would you put a lightened fly wheel in there? i've heard mixed reviews some say makes a big difference some say they don't notice it? Does a 6 speed get annoying on longer runs? C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Hillman Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Try mine over weekend if you want mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 will take you up on that matt!! arent you 1800k? C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Hillman Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Yes but it`s only 140bhp I really enjoy the gearbox and i can understand people`s comments about 5 speed box ( try driving your car to Woodvale without using 5th ) but they are still great Not trying to start arguement on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 30, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 30, 2009 Would you put a lightened fly wheel in there? Yes! The combination of a lighter flywheel, and the closer ratios, helps quicker gear changes, and makes the car feel livlier. Does a 6 speed get annoying on longer runs? 4th gear in your 5 speed 'box is 1:1, and sixth in the six speed is 1:1. As Matt says, try driving your car with out using 5th, and see how it feels. It's also possible to change the diff ratio (£250-£300) from your standard 3.92 to the normal 3.62 that is used with the six speed. However, there are plenty of six speeders running with the 3.9 diff (mine included). Edited by - Richard Price on 30 Jul 2009 23:12:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 30, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 30, 2009 Will, You say "DVA 155bhp" - do you have a standard ECU (6800rpm rev limit) or a SS ECU (7600rpm rev limit)? If you still have the standard ECU, then you are not making the most of what you have. My 1600K - 633 cams, 52mm TB, ported head with standard valves, makes its max power at about 7500rpm. 1800's make similar power, but at lower revs.(low enough that you don't really need the extra revs of the SS ECU - unlike a 1600!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 yes i do have a standard ECU , the car does seem to rev high though. The car seems to lack bottom end acceleration from standing start.... i guess thats the 5 speed, once the revs are up in first it accelerates brilliantly. How much would an ECU be ? My engine has DVA head, verniers , cams, 52mm TB as far as I know and 421 exhaust if that helps. C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 31, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 31, 2009 the car does seem to rev high though How high 🤔 If your current rev limit is 6800rpm (which may look like anything from 6500 to 7200 on the tacho) then you have a standard ECU. If your rev limit is 7600rpm (which may look like anything from 7400 to 8000 on the tacho) then you have a supersport ECU. When I was looking for an SS ECU, I put a request in the "Wanted" section. I kept bumping it up to the top, and waited patiently. I think I paid about £150 for the ECU and matched immobiliser and a pair of plippers. I understand that Caterham have been able to have them reprogrammed, and the cost has varied from time to time. If you need one, then its worth giving them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 so ss ecu is my first move. forgive my ignorance but is it as simple as just plugging it in? Then 6 speed, they seem fairly rare on here second hand, I remember someone saying 5 speed can be altered to give the same sort of ratios as 6 is this an option or not, if so where's best to look. Also there seems to be a lot of fly wheels on the market, which are good value/quality ones? When you say reprogrammed, you mean they can turn my ecu into a ss one at a cost? 😬 thanks! C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I'm surprised you havent switched to a ss ecu following the engine mods . 6 speed will change the drive significantly and keep the engine on the boil ( ole K series pun 😬). I would go for the R500 flywheel from Caterham. here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia joint AO with Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Bill Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If the car is a high days and track car, then I'd have to agree, the 6-speed box is better. Following a 1.6 SS SV in my 1.4 SS S3 the lead car was always just that bit further up the rev range, without being at the screaming top, whereas I was always in 3rd! 3rd in mine is good from 30mph to about 100! 😬 Although there is talk on here about a 5 speed box with a longer 1st, and closer gears for the rest, giving you the possibility of a touring 5th when a long trudge is required. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 The car seems to lack bottom end acceleration from standing start.... i guess thats the 5 speed, once the revs are up in first it accelerates brilliantly Well, first on the 6 speeder is longer than the first on the 5 speeder (more so still if you fit the 3.62:1 dif to make 6th a bit longer legged) so the 6 speeder will not help you at that end. However, I would have thought you would have enough grunt already in first to exceed the traction. I only have a 1400 and I find it all too easy to get the back end unstuck in first 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter clarke Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hi Will you have lots of input now! Have had 6 speed from start as drove a 5 speed and found it very disappointing on the 1600. Have 13" wheels and 3.62 lsd diff is good combination. Use Apollo, for mainly road I do not beleive you need dry sump. Do almost all of the work myself so giving you a price is difficult, all I can say is that Dave was extremely helpful, very fair in price and he also manageged to use some parts from the old head on the new one. I already had van Kroenenburg wide band ECU and throttle bodies so no extra costs. Peter PJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 31, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted July 31, 2009 so ss ecu is my first move. forgive my ignorance but is it as simple as just plugging it in? The ECU and immobiliser need to be swapped as a matched pair. But, yes, it is a simple matter of un plugging one pair and plugging the other in. ( the immobiliser is the black box mounted on the inside of the scuttle, just above your right knee.) Caterham will sell you a new SS ECU. See here, but I'd search for a used one, or give caterham a call and enquire about having yours reprogrammed. I would not even think about a modified 5 speed. If you were to have your 5 speed 'box reconditioned, and alternative ratios fitted, it would end up costing close to a second hand six speed. The ratios of the six speed are ideal for an engine like yours. R500 flywheel will be fine. Edited by - Richard Price on 31 Jul 2009 14:30:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Akroyd Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 thanks for the input chaps. I think my winter is now accounted for! Wil 😬 😬 😬 C7 WEA 1.6K DVA Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wilcx Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Adding some more fuel to the fire - I'm part way through my upgrade path which started with a standard 2003 1.6 Academy Car. Wet sumped wit Apollo Tank Stage 1 Insalled 6 speed box plus R500 Ligthened Fly - verdict it revved like crazy and was more exciting to drive but I was for ever changing gear to keep it in the sweet spot. Okay for track work which is where I mostly use the car for but long road runs it became a nightmare as the gearing through the diff was wrong. Stage 2 Installed 3.62 LSD which returned the gearing and started to re-enjoy road work and track work became more fun Stage 3 Played with various Caterham Long 4-1 exhaust systems which had no noticeable effect to power - possibly just a bit more revvy. Stage 4 - The big one Commissioned DVA to rebuild the engine with fully modified head with oversized Paul Ivey Valves, Forged Pistons, Spun Liners, Jenvey DTH TB's, Emerald, and 285H Cams - wow a significant transformation but big flat spots in the mid range torque. I took the head to its maximum so that I would be ready for futre mods...see below for future thoughts. Stage 5. PowerSpeed 4-2-1 exhaust which sorted the mid range torque. Stage 6 Trip to Emerald for full mapping - the outcome was astonishing. I still run with wet sump and it will more than hold its own against R300's and keep touch with stock K Powered R400's I have also tweeked the suspension and changed all GRP for Carbon. Stage 7 Thought I should invest in the braking department with new upgraded Master Cylinder and Big Fronts..gives me a lot more feel especially on track with no noticeable fade. Stage 8 - The future Thought about hotter cams and stroking to 1.8lts but to be honest this would not give me the power - pound return that I've already created so the only real upgrade path is to graft as much of my current engine onto a Scholar 1.9lts block - this will hopefully take place this winter and which time it will be dry sumped and hopefully be a 250bhp monster. My Winter '08 Upgrade was to a screaming DVA K05. www.geoffwilcoxphotography.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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