John Howe Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Having removed a large bite sized chunk of the gearbox mount plate, when I carefully rolled the gear box into position, it refused to travel the last 1/4"! The propshaft front UJ was fouling the gearbox casing... The propshaft is the standard 18.5" (UJ centres) length for '97 car, so my questions are: 1). Has anyone else had this problem? 2). I am correct it assuming that it mounts on the rear most holes of the chassis mounting plate? JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hi John, so its been relegated from doorstop duty and getting fitted at long last eh?! I'm sorry to read about this speed-bump in the progress. Gary Sharville (Garibaldi) has retro-fitted on so he may be worth getting in touch with. Arch may also be able to shed some light as they've done a few in different chassis vintages now by all accounts. I'm having difficulty visualising what's happening; you mention the box won't go back the necessary amount for the mount to meet up with the chassis plate holes, yet the front uj is interfering with the gearbox tail (which sounds as if the splined shaft is buried too deep in the tail because I thought the rear of the casing was flat in terms of projections) is that the case? I'll be interested to hear the outcome. Best of luck Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Home of the long-term, supercharged Duratec project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 Darren, the splines cannot go any further into the gearbox housing, as the shoulder of the front UJ comes into contact with the housing. In other words, the prop-shaft seems too long, though at 18.5" between UJ centres, it is the correct size for the chassis. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Ah... got it. ☹️ It sounds as though, alternatively, the mounting points are further forward than expected, which would be peculiar given that it's supposed to be a direct swap for a type-9. According to my technical drawings of the G60, the mount is 371.4mm/14.624" and even says 'as per type 9 gearbox'. Given an overall casing length of 595.2mm/23.435", that leaves the length of the tail as 223.8mm/8.811" if you've got your old box to compare against.. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Home of the long-term, supercharged Duratec project Edited by - k80rum on 5 May 2009 16:25:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garibaldi Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 John In answer to your first question... Errr... NO! The bite I took out of my gearbox mounting plate was deep enough to remove the front pair of mounting holes... with the box mounted to the rear most pair of holes the Prop UJ definitely does NOT bottom out on the back of the bearing housing! (Well not on mine anyway) Can you measure the distance from the rear mounting hole centres to say the back of the chassis member across the Trans tunnel bellow the prop/diff flange and compare with Arch or another car...? See if your mounting bracket is in the std position... Was your old box mounted on the front or rear holes...?? If you compare old and new boxes do the mating faces (bellhousing - mounts - rear) roughly line up? Odd... if it all came out it should all fit back in assuming the only new item (G60) is dimensionally the same.... Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 Gary, yes it is odd. The previous box was a Caterham six speed and became a straight swop with the Ford box that came out of Muira's car. It too used the rear most fitttings and, less there was any mix up as to which holes I was to use, I had left the original bolts in the holes on the mounting plate. Seven's' with Rover/Vx engines should have prop shafts with 18.5" centres (between UYJ), so that seems to be OK. Thus, since it is meant to be a replacment for the series 9 type, I am at a halt, scratching behind my ear and trying to look intelligent! JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cornford Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hi John What type of Diff. are you using? Sigma SteVe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Steve, it is the standard diff that Caterham fit, with a Quaiffe LSD. Since the diff casing can only fit in one position, I just can't see where the lost 1/4" has gone to. Might be a case of getting a slightly shorter propshaft made... but in CF! Well it seems silly to waste the "excuse". JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sorry John had to go out Just in will measure and contact you first thing AM Johnty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 John, Whoes engine mounts are you using? If you are running the standard length input shaft with the standard bellhousing you wont be able to fit the Raceline engine mounts as they will move the engine and box back 18mm , just a thought. Rob Edited by - Rob Walker on 7 May 2009 08:29:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Hi Rob, I'm using the shorter Raceline bellhousing, but that is not involved in this equation. My problem only involves the rear gearbox mounting holes and the propshaft. Since the Quaiffe G 60 box is sized to Series 9 measurement and a Caterham six speed came out... why does it appear that I am 1/4" short of space to push the g/box back that last few mm? JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 John distance from single bolt hole where Mounting rubber bolts on to end of CASING where prop shaft slides in 230mm jj N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. 240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garibaldi Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 John May seem a daft question but is there a variation in the tail housing machining from one G60 to another... they are used in several applications other than a Caterham... Can you compare the proportions of the new box with the old 6 speeder..?? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 Gents, thanks for your efforts. I have spoken with both Phil at R & R and Dale at Quaiffe... There had been some issue with case length on the very early boxes ,and of course I have had this G 60 sitting around for 14 months. That said, Quaiffe could confirm that there was no issue with sequential boxes and none have caused the problem that I am experiencing. So I have reached the stage that I accept nothing is going to change the g/box size. I measured it at 220mm approx, Johnty is suggesting 230mm and Quaiffe refered to their drawing and came up with 225mm. However, if the box is fine, perhaps the propshaft UJ shoulders are a little large and the difference between the previous Caterham six speed and this G 60 box is picking up this size difference. Conclusion, move forward under own steam! So I am getting Rif to knock me up a Bling propshaft that is 1/2" undersize. The totally frustrating bit is that this could all have been sorted at least a year ago and just as I get ready for a big push to complete this car, the brakes go back on. Ho hum JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Glad to hear it's resolved John. For what it's worth, I test-fitted a recent G60 in my (1999) chassis yesterday. I'm using a CTG propshaft but it's standard length. The fit was perfect with the box in the rear holes and there is about 5mm clearance between the casing and the UJ knuckle so I can only conclude the casing on your early box is subtly different or the UJs on your vintage propshaft are large enough to be a problem. Anyway, every cloud and all that...now you'll have a bling propshaft. It has to be said, the tolerance between box and chassis rails/panels is chuffing small.. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Home of the long-term, supercharged Duratec project Edited by - k80rum on 9 May 2009 16:56:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Daren, I would not disagree with your conclusion - not that I can get anyone to agree to the fact! Forget the "Bling"...36 hours after RiF first spoke with the manufacturer, they declined the order, on the basis that being 1/2" short meant it was a"special" and they were not understaking any specials at present, because of a factory move. Poor Richard, poor JH... since their lead time for a standard length is six weeks, it makes one wonder. Bailey & Morris, on the other hand, were the reverse side of the coin. I gave them length and specification for bearing etc and they said "it will take about three days sir". So no Bling, but at least we move on! Well we don't actually, for having scheduled for six weeks delay, I opted to change the LSD and that is likely to take four weeks. So I have followed Thomas's example and have become a "polisher". It could be a close run thing, finishing the gray car before my 70th! JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now