Russell M Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Any ideas please?? Car will fire up without hesitation & run fine for a couple of miles before it starts missing, particularly under heavy acceleration, & eventually cutting out completely. It then refuses to restart until approx. 30 minutes later when, I guess having cooled down, it fires up & runs again. My immediate thought was fuel starvation - I didn't get a chance to use the car last year, I'd left the fuel (unleaded) in the tank very low rather than draining it all out & put in a couple of gallons before driving off to fill up at the local garage last Thursday. However, having left the car at the garage overnight they ran it until it stopped again, checked the electrics & diagnosed a faulty coil which they duly replaced. I picked the car up &, two miles later, the same thing happens........ *cry* The car is a 1996 x-flow, twin webers, facet fuel pump & a fuel pressure regulator - there doesn't appear to be an inline fuel filter &, when I disconnect the fuel line at the carbs & switch the pump on, fuel seems to be pumping ok. I'd have thought that, if it'd been a blocked jet, then it'd run roughly rather than cut out altogether. Prior to this the car has always been faultless. Many thanks in advance for any suggestions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 My first suspicion is the fuel pump; sounds like fuel starvation to me 🤔 Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 It does sound like the fuel pump, are you sure there isn't a filter in the line somewhere? We had a similar problem on a friends Fury last year, we swapped the pump but it turned out to be a dodgy tank of fuel that had filled the filter up with something that looked a bit like sand. Took ages to flush the tank out! Either way if you haven't got a filter it would be worth fitting one I suspect. The pump is fairly easy to swap if it's like my old one, bolted to the outside of the rear cockpit panel. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular--Bob Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Mine did something very similar, and it was hard to pin down. I had a blocked fuel tank breather, and sorting that helped a bit, but i think my main problem was a loose distributor clamp, which had allowed the timing to slip. It was good enough to start it but as it warmed up it just ran worse till it wouldn't hold any load and stalled out. You can see if it is a tank vacuum problem by releasing the fuel cap and seeing if the problem goes away, and a timing light should let you see if your advance is in the right ball park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thanks guys As I said my first thought was fuel starvation but I can't work out why it'd take so long to restart given that, when I remove the fuel line at the carbs, the fuel seems to be pumping ok? Surely it'd build up pressure in a few moments (after cutting out) & then fire up again straight away? I'll certainly be fitting an inline fuel filter but I was under the impression that facet fuel pumps had some form of internal filter, although it's not immediately apparent how to access it. Thanks again.. Edited to add: Will try your suggestions M B Edited by - Russell M on 1 Mar 2009 20:07:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'd be checking the coil as well - we've had a couple of cars (MG Midget, Mazda 323) with this symptom. They'd run for about 10 minutes from cold with absolutely no sign of a problem, then suddenly die. Let the car cool down for a few minutes and it would start and run for a few second. Let it cool for an hour and you'd get your 10 minutes running again... New coil, problem gone. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Coils been replaced 🤔 Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Bob - the symptoms are exactly as you describe - even to the point of it attempting to fire up for a few seconds before dying again completely. The local garage initially diagnosed a faulty coil & replaced it but it's still happening. I guess there's a faint chance the new one's also faulty but that must be unlikely surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I had the same problem last year, turned out to be the electronic ignition unit, which was breaking down as it got hot. (Not sure if you have this system or points!) Once I changed that the car was fine, and has been ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srcarter Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Russell, What have you checked when engine stalls! try H/T first,take any plug lead of and connect it to a good used plug hold it on to the cyl head with insulated pliers crank the engine and look for a good spark,if you have then fuel starvation is the possible cause, if not then look at checking the coil, unplug coil lead from distributor cap do the same test as above,and look for a good spark, still no spark then possible igniter or faulty coil, if all o/k then check fuel supply to carbs, fuel pump etc. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Hemsley Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have had very simular problems over the last few weeks. It was the facet fuel pump. failing intermittently. Facet have produced a improved pump. No.60104. Got mine from Temple Tunning. arrived next day fitted it and still had misfires due to toot blocking slow running jets, just kept cleaning filters and jets. O.K now. But at times had me checking everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Russell, given it's repeatability I'd be betting on it being electrical one way or the other (even if it turns out to be fuel starvation). I hate problems like this... Silly question, but was the car OK for a bit when the coil was replaced, before it then started happening again? I'm just wondering if something else is causing the coil to fail... Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 I hate problems like this... Tell me about it... ☹️ When the car stops after about 20 minutes sat running or about 3 miles distance the spark is very weak - put a new coil on & the spark is much stronger, fires up fine & runs for a similar time - I haven't had a chance to check the spark on the new coil after it cuts out yet. Is it possible that something could cause the coil to fail? Can electronic ignitions fail & give similar symptoms? It's difficult to pin down a fault because the problem keeps resetting itself & I don't want to be replacing perfectly serviceable parts just to narrow things down. The car has Lumenition electronic ignition &, prior to being off the road last year, has always run without fault. Haven't had a chance to look at it today but will try again tomorrow with all the above suggestions - Thanks guys Very frustrated... P.S. My last "7" suffered from an uncannily similar problem but that was built in 1927 & turned out to be the windings on the magneto breaking down when it got hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 High voltage? Has the alternator regulator gone, or the control voltage wire from the alternator regulator to the battery? If it's pumping out at full belt, in excess of 14V iirc, it'll fry the coil pretty quickly. Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Field Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Russell Don't forget to check and probably change the HT leads. I have found that these have a tendency to break down, especially if the car has not been used for a while. I chased a misfire for ages last year in similar circumstances, changing the coil and the dizzy cap, but it turned out to be the leads. Look at Burtons for spares. Terry 1700XF - Team Lotus with flares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalongbloke Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 HT leads easy to test with multimeter... from memory, they should all show very high resistance. Good luck with your probs... Check out Hal... http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dalongbloke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Update We've run the car up again & checked the voltage to the battery whilst running & it's 15v (before starting the car the it was 13.8v at the terminals) after 20 minutes the car cuts out again & the coil is too hot to touch (I'm not sure if it's normal for a coil to get hot). From what has been suggested does this mean that the regulator on the alternator has gone? I've phoned the local motor factors who've given an exchange price of £60 + vat for an alternator (apparently it's off a Granada) does this sound as though it could be the answer? Many thanks for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Have you checked the control voltage wire from the alternator regulator to the battery for continuity first? High voltage can be a symptom of it either not being connected or a wire break. Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry watts Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 hi russell, what was the outcome of this problem. i have exactly the same symptoms, have changed coil, leads, cap and fuel pump only to be dumped at the side of the road again! getting desperate now.please help. barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 facet's were notorious some while back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Check that control wire! It's the thinner of the 3 red/brown wires that run from the alternator to the battery +ve. If it's cooked or not making a good connection, the regulator doesn't kick in and the alternator pumps out at full belt. Just use a bulb or a multimeter at the alternator end of the wire with the ignition off after disconnecting it. Earth the other side of the circuit; If the bulb lights, or if it reads around 11.5-12V on the meter, the wire is OK, so make sure it's properly connected to the alternator. A bit of sandpaper on the terminal is a good idea. With the engine running, test again (you'll need a multimeter for this). If you're still getting high voltages across the battery (13v or so is normal; too high if in the 15V range), then the connector or the regulator is todgered. Refurbed alternator will be required. One other point; some coils run at 12V, some at 9V with a ballast resistor. What model of coil is on the car? If it's a 9V and there's no ballast, then the coil will definitely fry. Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Edited by - alextangent on 16 Apr 2009 20:22:44 Edited by - alextangent on 16 Apr 2009 20:24:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 Hi Barry Frustrating isn't it After a few miles or almost exactly 25 minutes sat on the drive ticking over, it begins to stutter & then dies completely. It's not fuel related - have checked & it's pumping fine. After cutting out the spark is so weak to the point of being almost non existent but after cooling down for 30 minutes it fires up & runs ok again. Have checked the leads, distributor cap & rotor arm - all ok, replaced the coil & alternator but the problem still persists *cry* Having spoken to numerous auto electrical guys the consensus seems to be the electronic ignition, mine has a Lumenition Optronic system &, apparently, they're known to suffer this fault. I'll be ordering a new one from Burtons in the next week or so & will let you know if it solves the problem.... Out of interest - does yours have the same ignition system?? Alex - have cleaned up all the connectors & the coil's the same value as the one it replaced, the guys I've spoken with didn't seem too worried about 15 v across the terminals whilst running although it is a little lower with the new alternator. Whad'ya reckon - new Xflow wiring loom??? 😬 Thanks again for all the input Mark. Edited by - Russell M on 16 Apr 2009 20:56:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Mines been playing up electricly a bit lately and it was diagnosed this week as being down to the old crossflow problem of the exhaust manifold frying the wiring to the alternator which has become very brittle even though the plastic insulation looked fine. It was playing havoc with the ecu which was getting confused It might be worth just double checking the last couple of feet of your wiring to the alternator Edited by - Graham Perry on 17 Apr 2009 07:07:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry watts Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 hi guys, unfortunately when the engine died i didnt have any means of testing for a spark and the car is quite happy to run on the drive without cutting out, it has the aldon distributer fitted. what is the reliability like on these units or has any one had similar problems.the car is a 97 with much the same set up as yours it has only covered 15k so surely the loom is u/s? thanks barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell M Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Barry Not sure about Aldon - perhaps try a search through the archives? I checked the wires as Alex suggested, there are 4 (2 x large brown & 2 smaller - 1 brown/yellow & 1 brown/black) the br/bl showed 12.8v when tested - so I assume ok. (I'm sure you don't need a new loom - my comment was tongue in cheek based upon Alex's bulk buy request ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now