brianmurray325hotmail.com Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well thats my next week job, a wiring check and look at suspect earthing since i think i've changed all relevant sensors, tps, temp at water jacket, temp at inlet filter, haven't changed Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) yet but will try that also. By the way i thing all of these sensors are avialble at your local ford dealer, water jacket temp sensor was anyway..............and i think the rest have "Ford" stamped on them. just make sure you refer your ford man to the ZETEC SE engine they don't seem to know what a SIGMA engine is. *thumbdown* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cockburn Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hi all, Built my 150 SV last year and it had a terrible flat spot at 3000rpm, lived with that until first service when CC uploaded the latest ECU map, been so much better since, although it does still pop and bang. I find the 150 great away from the line, not much can keep the pace, although many have tried - Puts a wide smile on your face when you leave much more expensive cars behind. Roll on Wightblat 09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Ahhh Ha!! I seem to be getting somewhere I remade the earth under the dash where it joins onto the wiper motor barcket (two hefty leads direct onto the chassis) I also put a piece of 20sqmm stuff from the bat -ve to a tapped M8 bolt hole just by it. Took it out for a run and it was definitly somewhat better, unfortunately time was not on my side and I wasn't able to re-calibrate the throttle etc. so that is the next step. Rik, do you know if your earth was the point under the dash where it joins the chassis or one of the three(?) where the earths branch out into other clusters of earth wires? Cheers Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 From what Simon at CCM told me, it was the earth on the wiper motor bracket. I like the idea of running a separate battery ground to the dashboard, maybe try that. Unfortunately on my car, other issues have come to light such as misfiring under load, so I'm beginning to suspect an intermittent fault int the HT circuit as well, this maybe putting more fuel down the exhaust which may be confusing the ECU, which may be overcompensating etc etc. Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 ARRRGH!! It never rains but it pours Hope it gets sorted soon - keep us all posted. Regards Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmurray325hotmail.com Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 has anyone got the "pin out of the of the ECU cable plug / recepticle, no doubt there won't be too many used with such a simple system. This may help in chasing down high resistance earths etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I've got one, but it's at home so I'll post it this evening. Regards Ivan P.S. My nearside front caliper has now decided to pop a seal so my testing has stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 There is one on the SBD website Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmurray325hotmail.com Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/MBE/967e_General.xls i'm told by the MBE man that this is the sigma 150 pin out for your interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks Brian, I couldn't get to that earlier as the SBD website is banned as "not work related" ☹️ but blatchat isn't !!! 😬 Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Just a thought, my intermittent problem (which has got much better since Simon at CCm redid all the earths), seemed worse after several starts with out a run. Just metered the battery, and it drops to 9.7 V on cranking, charger indicated 50% charge so it is on charge now. Is this low enough to upset the ECU / Coil / Spark ??? Car is Sept 2007, but 14,000 miles, looks like original battery Any comments welcome Thanks Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 It may be possible but most of the ECU (including sensors) will be running at 5V or less I think. I would also think that the regulator inside the ECU is designed to cope with drops in the supply, certainly looks like you have got a cell gone/going on the battery though. Having said that I have noticed that the TPS value does change a little from ignition on compaired to engine running (10mV) so maybe it's not that imune to changes in voltage. Sorry it's a bit of a vague non answer but it would definately be worth looking at further and ruling it out. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 A further update Having spent 2 weeks at CCM and th problem not quite fixed yet, I spent hours surfing, sorry, working, the internet. Having Googled 1.6 Zetec SE (Thanks Brian) I found that the consensus amongst the Focus owning community (someone has to) is the the plugs are overgapped at 1.2 / 1.3mm. This is probably fine, when everything is new, but is too big a gap when everything has run in. The recommendation is to regap to 0.9mm. I checked mine and they were 1.2 ish so I re-gapped on Thursday night last week, thinking it'll either kill it or cure it for Wightblat................... Touch wood, it didn't miss a beat all weekend and seems just as sure this morning. So if anyone is still having Sigma 150 rough running troubles, try it, a very cheap fix if it works 😬 Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You naughty little tease you, I got all excited this afternoon as I was stealing the plug spanner from the workshop tool kit after reading your post...... ..... alas, for me it didn't work ☹️. It made things worse unfortunately ☹️ ☹️. so, maybe I should open mine out to 1.5mm ....... Glad it's worked for you though Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Eccles, Sorry, but I was so pleased I had to share it 😬 😬 Have you tried the MAP sensor ?? Reason for asking was that I spoke to Brett at CCM today, and they had a problem with their new 09 plate Sigma 150, they couldn't suss it, so sent it to Dartford. Upshot is that there was an incorrect batch of MAP sensors, so when CCM swapped it they swapped it for the same duff ones. May be worth a call to Dartford to check part no's ?? A clutch at the proverbial straw, I'm afraid................. Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmurray325hotmail.com Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 yes , i got a sniff that possible my MAP was not correct range and change it for another "with out a white label on "..................no improvement..........now suspecting a Lambda sensor...new one arrives thursday will fit Sat I hope. consumption is still 21.9mpg........................ah well philosophically..learning all i need to know about ECU controlled engines,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,glad i've still got two 45DCOEs attached to a crossflow in the garage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yup, tried that, thanks. Took it out for a run last night to the club meet and it was running rougher than a badgers ar5e, looks like the problem is getting worse and worse which hopefully means the faulty item is about to fail properly and show itself. Starting to think HT leads, plugs, coilpack...mind you that's all there is left to try apart from a new ECU!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 In all my wanderings over websites all things ford focus, a couple of things kept coming up :- 1) 1.6 Zetec engines destroy coilpacks 2) If you change the coilpack, you may as well do the leads and the plugs or you will just be chasing the fault 3) After market coilpacks are carp, you may as well spend the extra on a genuine Ford one 4) Caterhams coilpack (from parts website) is about 36 odd quid. A genuine Ford one is £80 odd. Don't know which make Caterham (or PowerTEC) use, be surprised if it isn't a ford one 5) Genuine HT Leads (FoMoCo) are aboyt £10 each Okay so it was more than a couple of points 😬 The thing that pinned it down for me to the HT was, I started pulling the HT leads off of the coil (with a big glove on) and it became apparent that 2 weren't firing (made no difference to engine whether they were connected or not). That is why I suspected the coil (Wasted spark fires two cylinders at once) If the spark plug gap hadn't of done it, my next step would have been the coilpack and leads. It may be worth pulling some leads to try and identify which cylinder isn't firing and if it is 2 then suspect the coil Regards Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Cheers Rik, some more good ideas worth checking out I have been in touch with CC though, and they are going to come and collect the car and sort it all out for me (with the car running as roughly as it does at the moment I wouldn't like to drive it the 100 miles to Dartford!). Have had a look at the coilpack and it is a FoMoCo one, and think this is where the problem may partly lie. Thanks again for the info, hope yours is still running well. Regards Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Corner Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Eccles, Thanks for the update, be interested to know what the final diagnosis is though Rik Roadsport SV 1.6 Sigma 150 in Viper Blue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 The car has now gone back to CC for them to sort out. Hopefully they will find a definite problem and solution (and that it won't be something stupid that I did during the build!! 😬) Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Just for the record, I had a very badly mapped 150 originally. Second map was the best I've had, good cold running & free revving. They remapped again at the first year's service, since when cold running is again poor but it's fine once it gets warmed up. I do find it dificult to understand why the mapping makes so much difference on individual engines - I would have thought that a map once sorted for a specific engine type should be fine on all engines of that type. CC have had about 2 years to sort it out and should surely have a robust map that works by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah, must admit I agree with you. All the bit for the ECU (sensors etc.) are off the shelf items that FoMoCo make by the lorry load so should be of constant quality and reliability. Don't know who the engine makers are but maybe there are some tolerance issues creeping in for the CC map to be good on one engine and bad on another and for things to reverse for the next map issue. CC can only have a small pool of engines/cars to develop with (which may change regularly) so have their work cut out trying to develop new ones, especially if there is any variations in them. It must be very difficult, don't envy them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin J Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Minister have devloped a complete kit of parts to modify the sigma to 160hp, bet it works fine but at a price See there web site. Performance, 160hp@7500rpm 125lb/ft torque at 6000rpm. Makes you realise what a GOOD ENGINE the 125 is at it's torque curv is very flat & peaks at 120lb/ft at 5000rpm, only 5 less than the minister engine. Edited by - Martin Jeffrey on 22 Apr 2009 22:50:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyCoulson Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Link for Minister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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