Jay 28 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi all So the car is booked in for the post build on Monday, i have a ifor trailer i thought would do, but turns out is 1 1/2 inch to small in width and length (i has rigid sides), so i ask a mechanic friend if he knows of anyone i can borrow a trailer off, no dosn't, but then informs me i need a licence to tow a trailer, because i passed my driving test after 1st Jan 1997, and as its a commercial vehical im using i also need a tach if im going over 60 miles. WTF? Ive been on the DVLA web site to to get some info but it's so ambiguous, its hard to tells what legal and whats not. So can someone give me some advise please, the towing vehical is a Defender 90. I have towed 2 ton diggers with my trailer before now and never had any trouble. Stupid laws that no one ever gets to hear about really Me! Edited by - Jay 28 on 16 Oct 2008 21:35:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pikey Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I'm afraid he is right. your licence will have the codes on the back. If you have "B" then thats a car and if you have "BE" then thats a car and a trailer if it has "C1E" then thats a commercial up to 7.5ton and a trailer. I guess you will only have "B" which means you are stuffed ☹️ officially.... But the fact is hardly anyone knows about it. I have worked in the caravan industry for 8 years and no one has ever asked me about it and I have never met or heard of anyone getting busted for it. J Currently, I am qualified to plead ignorance. Edited by - Jason Fletcher on 16 Oct 2008 22:16:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 The tacho thing is tosh. There was a very interesting technical debate on the licence codes matter on the SP&L forum on pistonheads recently which seemed to conclude that all is not quite as it seems regarding the codes on licences. Worth a search to find. Just found it here Graham Edited by - Gridgway on 16 Oct 2008 23:04:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 28 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks for the replys, so ive read the link you posted and now im even more confused The unlaiden weight of the LR is 1700kg so i should be ok towing another 1700kg as long as its a braked trailer? The plate of the LR says i can tow upto a maximum weight of 2500kg, but i dont suppose this matters if i only have a cat B licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pikey Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 They refer to the "new rules" so it looks like you will be ok as the whole rig is less than 3500kg. What a load of carp the codes are on the licences now! J Currently, I am qualified to plead ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardUSA Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 *confused*Me thinks you boys need your own revolution....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Jay, Your LandRover will be plated to 3500kgs towing. Tachos are only required for commercial use on vehicles where the gross train weight exceeds 3500kg. The DfT and DVLA have caused a whole lot of confusion over this issue and finding the answers on their website is like bog running ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 17 Oct 2008 10:49:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 28 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Ok i've been everywhere on the net to find a deffinate answer to this and 2 things confuse me. 1. The MAM limmit of 3500kg for the vehicle, trailer and load, is this what everything in total weighs, eg. vehicle 1700kgs, trailer 1000kgs, load 500kgs total 3200kgs so this combination is legal. or 2. The MAM limmit of 3500kg is broken because, the MAM limit of the vehicle (in this case 3500kg) plus the MAM of the trailer eg 3500kgs making a total of 7000kgs. So in this case the actualweight of vehicle and load is irrelevant as its the MAM of both Vehicle and Trailer that are taken into account. So what im confused about is weather MAM is the actual weight of the vehicle and load or the theoretcal (spelling?) weight of both vehicle and load? I rang a training instructor to ask about this and he said as the MAM of the LR was 3500kg i was over limmit before i started even though the weight of the LR is 1800kg but he wouldn't explain why which makes me suspicious he was just saying that so i would book training with him . A bit of a essay but any more suggestions? Edited by - Jay 28 on 17 Oct 2008 15:53:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yup, I think he is right. Having a MAM of 3500kg for the LR means you are stuffed. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 28 Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 oh 🙆🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Agree with Gridgway. The MAM limit of 3500kg for the vehicle, trailer and load, is this what everything in total weighs, MAM = Maximum Authorise Mass i.e. not the actual weight but the total it's allowed to be when fully laden. Steve. Sussex (West) AR Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I would have thought not having a licence to tow would be the main stuffing point . . . Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Farmer Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 With just a B licence you can drive: Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. The key here is "not exceeding 3500 Kg MAM". Therefore, you can drive the landrover because it does not exceed 3500 kg MAM + a trailer not exceeding 750 Kg MAM. Thus, the MAM for the whole lot is 4250 Kg. You can only tow a trailer exceeding 750 Kg if the MAM of the whole lot does not exceed 3500 Kg MAM. Such as a car with a MAM of 2000 Kg + a trailer of 1200 Kg making a train weight of 3200 Kg. This is why most small commercial vehicles are given a MAM of 3500 Kg including Landrover. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 No I am not sure it does help! It says "the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg". If the MAM of the LR is 3500kg, then that in combination with any trailer will have a combined MAM of more that 3500kg. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Farmer Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Graham, Where the MAM of the towing vehicle does not exceed 3500Kg you can tow 750 Kg. You can tow MORE than 750 Kg IF the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500Kg. Therefore, with the Landrover at 3500 Kg MAM, you can NEVER tow more than 750 Kg on a B licence. Is that better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yep, I see what you are saying indeed. What does "a trailer not exceeding 750kg" mean? GRaham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 re-read the ph thread again. The question is whether all conditions have to be met. Trailer less than 750 in weight and vehicle MAM less than 3500 and combined MAM less than 3500 and vehicle MAM greater than trailer MAM. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Farmer Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Graham, 1. You can drive any vehicle up to 3500 Kg MAM as well as pulling a trailer up to 750 Kg MAM. 2. If you tow a trailer more than 750 Kg MAM - then the combined weight of vehicle and trailer must not exceed 3500 Kg MAM. However, you cannot tow a 2500 Kg trailer with a 1000 Kg car for obvious road safety reasons. The rule then becomes that the trailer must not exceed the UNLADEN weight of the car. The reason for this change from MAM to UNLADEN weight is that there are two sets of regulations in play. The first is the DRIVING LICENCE regs and the second is CONSTRUCTION AND USE regs which tends to make it quite confusing as evidenced by this thread. Clear as mud? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Jay, I suggest you find a licenced friend to take it to Dartford for you and then spend the necessary tax to get the trailer licence so you don't have to fear the quagmire any more ❗ I have to say, as one who tows regularly and has done since I first drove a tractor around the yard, there is a need for trailer tuition for the general driver and the only way to ensure that is to make it mandatory to have a test. In my opinion this is an improvement, though understand the frustration when it is not widely known/acknowledged. I think as part of the standard (car) test the learner should be taught what his licence will and won't cover, in just the same way he needs to know what speeds he can do where. That way, on passing your car test you will know what type of trailer you can use, or whether you need to take a trailer test too. I'm lucky because my work/life has given me ample trailer tuition off the road before I was old enough to have a licence. Looking at the number of people who can't parallel park or reverse on mirrors there is certainly a requirement for trailer reversing tuition ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 "Looking at the number of people who can't parallel park or reverse on mirrors " - and that's before they tie a trailer/caravan on the back! I think some people have an awareness of what they are doing in a car, and some just don't. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 28 Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Thanks for all your replys, i have sorted a friend to drive me down to cc, its just annoying because he has to take a day out his week off to help me ☹️, but im sure an offer to drive the car round a track in payment wont go unappreciated! I will take the test, hopefully i should only have to do the cheapest, shortest, course (but the driving assesment is £32 to find out!), i would like to think im very cappable with a trailer as i have been towing one for years and can get it into just about any position i want. Hey hoe live and learn i guess Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 the towing argument is settled and correct Tachos ONLY come into play when your are driving Commercially and they are Mandatory for MAM over 3500 Now there are thousands of white van men around with two and tri axle trailers who are breaking the Tacho rules BUT the clock is Ticking VOSA are going on warpath Problem for the driver is Ignorance of law is no excuse and Penaltys are up to 2000 Quid per axle. We are in process of getting rid of our 4by4s with twin and tri trailers as the complications are just too much were buying more 7.5 tonne flatbeds and getting more Drivers The reps will revert to Saloon cars. Intersting enough is the Speed rules again Thousands od drivers are unaware of the different speed rules that apply between a Car derived van and the likes of a Transit Again Police are going on warpath jj N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. 240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Johnty, have you been drinking again? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Don't think so Graham WHY Just been thrashing out a few rules with our drivers Most of whom are totally oblivious of the regs. jj jj N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. 240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 dunno Johnty, must have been me! Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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