Calling Matt Deakin ? BEC reliability

[GasMan]

Hi Matt,

As you know my blade went pop at Cadwell threw a rod. Could this be oil starvation despite the dry sump and reservoir being well topped up? Bearing in mind I had hardly got going at Cadwell and had done less than half a dozen fast laps I think this unlikely?

Can we discuss Blackbird reliability please as I believe there may be oil starvation reliability issues with these engines too.

I thought the whole point of Dry sumping a BEC was to prevent oil starvation but I'm beginning to think this might not be the whole story.

If any other blackbird gurus out there want to comment please help

Matthew B

[BYKer Will]

Famous last words but had mine one year, 4k miles, inc at least 10 track days and absolutely perfect other than one wheel bearing and one 4th gear.

 

 

The gearbox problem was totally my fault for driving like a complete c*ck on my first trackday at snett. I was banging down thru the gears like an xtrac rallycross driver rather than using the brakes which was fun but stupid with hindsight.

 

Since then driven hard but with respect I have had absolutely no probs. It is a honda after all.

 

 

Will

 

 

[Blackbirdman]

Sorry Matt,

 

Ive been out of the loop a bit since Cadwell. Roger did prompt me that you wanted to talk.

 

Probably easier on te phone so I will blatmail you the number.

 

Matt

 

 

 

Life begins at 10,000

[Alex Wong1697456877]

Matt,

 

Nice to meet you at Cadwell. Sorry to hear about the engine. Good luck getting it sorted!

 

Alex

 

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VDU 7X

[GasMan]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the chat on the phone Matt. I have a spare engine which needs a mounting point welding on apart from that should be fine as a standard motor.

Likewise it was good to meet you at Cadwell Alex. Looking forward to our next meeting. Hope you are getting more sleep!

I have already had 2 offers of loan cars for Le Sept so I'll be there.

Matthew

[Paul Thompson]

Your engine was modified wasn't it. I ran a standard ( second hand ) engine for 4 years without a problem until I was stupid enough to forget to do up an oil union properly.

Were you using full synthetic oil? Was it bike oil? All I can think was it was bad luck or continued bouncing it off the rev limiter.

[GasMan]

Hi Paul,

I will pull the engine apart in due course. Yes it was modified but we kept the standard ecu and so were not pushing up the revs and I didn't bounce it off the rev limiter! I was well topped up with oil and it was very early in the day. Fully synthetic oil as recommended by the tuner. I may never know what happened may just be bad luck. Anyway its back to standard engine for now. 🙆🏻

Matthew

[blade_runner]

Mathew, My blade went pop and threw a rod and trashed my ex british superbike spec engine at brands on the club trackday 06, mine was oil starvation as yours will be.

my Blade had the first dry sump system that pace made for the blade, as mine was the prototype the scavange pump on mine was a piece of machined billet aluminium, not the modular unit they supply now.

After several gearboxes going, the chambers in my pump were fairly scored the cars had a hard life.(mines the ex prototype and raced jw blade) i started to notice the oil pressure dropping off when cornering (i have a gauge) but it never dropped below 2 bar and the oil pressure warning light never even got close to comming on. stupidly I left it running like that and thats why it failed.

I have mentioned to the 2 blade owners locally that they should consider having their scavange pumps checked/overhauled by pace for piece of mind.

without an oil pressure gauge you really dont know if your suffering from oil starvation because of the pressure setting and lag of the oil pressure warning light.

 

'Pinky Pics' here

[blade_runner]

Forgot to add, if the rods broken at the bottom, its oil starvation, if the little end of the rods broken its over revving.

 

'Pinky Pics' here

[Ken Gibson]

Is it possible to fit a later model Fireblade engine?

(sure anything is possible - but say using the dry sump, with a few mods if necessary and keeping it inside the standard bonnet)

 

An article in a recent issue of Bike magazine had dyno tests of the latest generation of 1000cc superbikes, all were making around 165+ BHP which sounds like a nice upgrade from the RRW engine.

 

I'm interested because I've got Nick Addison's old car - not that I'm hankering to upgrade it just yet...

 

Good luck with the replacement engine Matt

 

 

[blade_runner]

An upgrade to a newer spec blade engine would be nice. its not impossible, lots of work though.

new dry sump system reqd

new engine mounts reqd

new loom reqd

new fuel tank reqd

new fuel pump reqd

Possibly new exhaust headers reqd

and the biggest stumbling block, possible axle change if you have an ital to a stronger ford one.

personally if i was going to all this trouble i'd fit a Busa.

and maybe consider buying a older de-dion car stripping it down and starting a fresh.

 

 

'Pinky Pics' here

[GasMan]

Hi there B-Runner,

My rods gone at the bottom its all beginning to look like oil starvation. I'll have a good look at the scavenge pump too.

Matthew

 

 

[STEVE GILBERT]

When my gearbox broke at Silverstone (it always was a lemon) the scavenge pumps got thoroughly buggered as did the main oil pump.

When I rebuilt it all I fitted a new main oil pump and had new stages and rotors fitted to the D/S scavenge pump by Neil at Pace.

 

I also have a mega magnet on the end of my DS tank dipstick which sits permanently in the tank. This picks out a lot of the little bits of metal and stops them getting to the oil pump.

 

See My Caterham Fireblade Here.

[blade_runner]

Steve, Funnily enough, i've got a magnetic dipstick too 😬

 

'Pinky Pics' here

[Howard R]

Tread hijack

 

I'm interested in the dry sump tank magnetic dip sticks - where can i get one for a Pace DS tank - are they a Pace part 🤔

 

Back on thread

 

Sorry to hear about the blade going pop ☹️

The blade and bird engines seem to be reliable if kept standard

I think the later injected blades need a pressurized air box - so will struggle to fit under the bonnet.

 

 

 

Green Fireblade Pilot

[blade_runner]

I made my dipstick after seeing Mr gilberts one he had fabricated.

Mine consits of a small rectangular magnet with a hole through it length ways, it came out of an old analogue instrument, Then i've used a brass welding rod passed through the magnet with the end bent over and a little silver solder applied.

at the top the rod was simply bent and formed into a circle so it sits in the neck of the scavange tank.

its crude and simple but it works, the magnet sits low in the tank close to the tank outlet.

 

'Pinky Pics' here

[metal mickey]

Why don't you all fit drain plugs to the bottom of you ds tanks and put a magnetic drain plug in. Kills two birds with one stone.............you can drain the tank and catch any fine metal parlicles

[Julian Thompson]

The blade and bird engines seem to be reliable if kept standard

 

Oh bugger.

 

It'll be interesting to see how my extremely un-standard Raceco Blackbird lump does this year, then 😳

 

If it fails I can always use some of the valves as dinner plates I suppose 😬

[BYKer Will]

Don't worry Julian. Mine isn't standard and hasn't gone pop yet(touching wood). If it does good excuse for an upgrade anyway.

 

Looking forward to seeing the result of all your hard work soon.

 

 

Will

[Julian Thompson]

Bloody hell Will! An upgrade already

 

I'm a little nervous but excited all at the same time! I just hope we can get the DTA system dialled in without a right kerfuffle !

 

Have finished the wiring this week (bloody 100 hours in the end to build the new loom even though I did it on the car and 'on the fly' without drawing much of a wiring schematic to save time! ) so now need to fit the engine, put the sideskins on, build the back suspension up and plumb the water and fuel in.... Pics soon!

 

I don't know how I'm doing for weight but I can still lift the chassis easily fron both ends with everything else in so I think this is promising in a very unscientific way!

[Mike Molloy]

As this thread has drifted onto Blackbirds I feel it is time to ask a question:

Martin Plant (whose 'Bird is up For Sale at the moment) mentioned that ST Motorsport did some tweeks to his car. They noted the rad filler was lower than the top of the water jacket hence the top of the block is dry and car didn't get cooled properly. STM added a header tank.

My engine also uses the standard (bike) coolant header tank, mounted quite low on the front offside chassis.

I don't think I have cooling problems, but does anyone have thoughts about the tank position?

Does the coolant level in the header tank have to be the highest point of the system for it to fill correctly? (Which would seem logical...)

 

[ruff seven]

I think the blade engine will always struggle for reliability, jedi used them in a car weighing in @ 300 kg, and they went pop all the time, a good bike engine in its day but left behind now with all new developments, you don,t see a horse with three jockeys.

[bluenose]

Mike

 

I had problems last year with my car overheating in traffic, fine when on track, normal road driving. Whenever I checked the coolant level the header tank(standard Blackbird one & rad) was topped up OK but the rad looked dry. I then topped up the rad and ran it only to find the header tank topped up above maximum. I bought a new rad cap as I thought a lack of pressure was not returning the water to the rad when it cooled but this did not seem to work.

 

This past winter I have removed the rad, water flushed the engine, fitted twin Blackbird fans and a lower temperture switch(Suburu one) and a manual overide all through a relay and the temperture is indicating fine on the Stack but the rad is still dry when I open the cap up to look when it is cold . I have done a trackday at Croix and all seems OK and sitting in traffic is fine now, constant 80 degrees on the Stack.

 

I think from my experiences ST Motorsport maybe correct and fitting the header tank higher may help things but as I have the standard BBMS airbox over the rad I would need to mount the header tank on the aft bulkhead to get the height.

 

Seems like a good excuse to get the Reverie carbon airbox to free up some space 😬

[Blackbirdman]

Matthew - Pace do an excellent rebuild service for the scavenge pumps, recomended. Good luck.

 

Mike - good point about the top of the rad. Mine's the same as you describe and I've never had a problem and the top of the rad is always full.

 

Matt

 

Life begins at 10,000

[STEVE GILBERT]

I think another issue with BEC's in general, is over revving on the downchange. The engine gives little in the way of engine braking to warn the driver of what they are doing. As time has passed I've become very careful about this and try to drive in a more methodical way.

 

Lets not forget though, a whole engine is less than £800

 

Steve

 

See My Caterham Fireblade Here.