Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Anyone use one on a K series engine? I'm thinking about fitting one on the K1800 for various good reasons, and also on my race Davrian which has a tendency to get rather hot..... Think do one here Any problems known with these? Oh yes, what is the drive mechanism for the original 'K' pump? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - unclefester on 8 May 2007 12:09:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 The Think pump is rated at 2000 hours continuous use at 80°C, so I suppose a spare in the boot would be sensible....dead easy to change by the road or in the paddock. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I use a Davies Craig EWP80 along with the Davies Craig electronic controller, and (obviously) no thermostat. It works great, heating the water up very quickly, and then keeping it at exactly what I've set the running temp to be It even keeps the water circulating for a little while after the engine's been shutdown *thumbup* OK, so I don't have a K, but the principles are the same and if an EWP80 can cool my engine, it will cool an 1800K. Edited by - AdamHay on 8 May 2007 12:46:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 But then you only have a bike engine Adam? James F ran one of these in his XE 7, it was not quite butch enough. R500 260 BHP Mango Madness CAR NO-37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I don't know what the Craig pump specs are, but the one on Think's site is rated at up to 80 litres per minute. What's the standard mechanical pump go to? I know people use these a lot for circuit racing, though this is with small engined cars, though I understand they are used on larger engines as well. The flow can, if neccessary, be upped by adding a second pump listed on the Think site as having a life of 15,000 hours. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 The Craig EWP80 is made for cars up to 5 litres. It produces 80 litres per minute. They do a 110 LPM model if that isn't enough, rated for race and competition 4x4 use......should be butch enough! Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I looked at these a couple of years back and there was mixed opinion, some people swore by them, some people completely against them both experienced and novice racers and mechanics. I seem to remember there was a thread on blatchat a while back as well, again with differing opionions. My reason for looking at it was due to installation problems on a car I was looking at at the time but I didn't go down that route in the end. Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Looks good to me, Adam. What engine is it on in your car? Here's the bumf here and check this here Can't argue against it IMO. Gives much better temp control, better fuel economy, more powere, and the thing also prevents engine 'cooking' by running on after key off, thus preventing heat buildup after enthusiastic driving. I think they are just as reliable as a mechanical pump, without the hassles. Imp pumps are notoriously crap and sap power, plust the seals have a very limited life. I'm getting one for the EVO220 motor.....how much are they, Adam? Doesn't seem to be marked on the site. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 8 May 2007 13:41:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Harrold Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I am just in the process of fitting a Craig EWP80 to my CSR to give better control of temp and the benefit of over run of pump after stop. The CSR 992 ECU latest firmware allows control of an external electric pump so i don’t need the expensive electronic controller. I intend to remove the mechanical pump and fit a blanking plate – therefore I just need one drive belt for the alternator. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I wonder if the latest Emerald will run an EWP? I need to remove the waterpump and disable it, but if drives off the cambelt on a K. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 UF: IIRC, EWP 80 is about £150. The electronic controller (if you need one) is about £110 . . .. check Demontweeks for current prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 The K pump is an integral part ot the Belt drive train to remove it you need to modify the pump by removing the impellor section but retaining the casting and the pulley I have seen one so modified and it works well, jj N.I. L7C AR. Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Yes, Johnty, I worked out it needs to stay as it's part of the cambelt pulley system. I suppose it's worth removing the impellor, but on the udder hand......if it's just spinning in air, it isn't using much power as its doing no work. However, if it has the impellor still, it might be handy to leve it there as a standby pump in case the EWP breaks down! Saves me the hassle of removing the impellor too. 😬 Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Uncle, if the impeller is 'spinning in air', how is the water going to get back into the block? I would have thought you'd need to use the existing pump housing (ie the block) as a water passage? Martin Aero'd supersported ex-Roadsports B...anyone got a cheap LSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I'd remove anything that sits in the cooling system to restrict the passage of water, including the original impeller/thermostat. Guess you'd need to keep the impeller housing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Martin, 'fraid my brain was on holiday when I wrote that...well spotted! So that does tend to indicate I need to remove the original water pump and disable it. Does anyone know how easy or otherwise that would be? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Interesting, was thinking about one of these as my car is pretty close to its temperature controlling capacity. The Emerald ECU I have as the ability to control a fan, could I use this to control teh waterpump, if so would I just use it as a switch and turn on th epump when the engine gets to say 60'c or do you need to run the pump even at low temps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 You can get an electronic pump controller that ups the rate with temperature - you definitely can't just use a switch. Safer to leave on the whole time, the only reason to reduce the speed is to reduce power (slightly!). I had the EWP fail on my Radical - luckily I got flashed for dropping fluid immediately and saved any head damage by cutting the engine straight away. Could have been very expensive otherwise, and I loved the factory comment "yeah, they all do that, but we now sell a more reliable (expensive) one"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Dobuy : ECU fan switch in only on/off so no good for controlling an EWP as it needs a variable input related to coolant temp. Even from cold, an EWP will run constantly to keep coolant flowing and ensure localised boiling doesn't occur. You need an ECU that has a variable output of the correct range for an EWP. This voltage would be mapped against the coolant temperature and perhaps another adjuster to move the EWP supply voltage up or down the temp curve (for cooler/hotter running) - i.e. exactly what an electronic EWP controller does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Thanks Danny & Adam, I was just trying to be cheap about it. Out here, the car never gets really cold, so would be able to run it all the time on the ignition switch. Duratec SV, built in Dubai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I've just ordered a new generation Emerald, I hope it has the ability to run an EWP as the Craig control box is not very cheap (£110 ish) DOES anyone know how easy it is to remove the standard K impellor? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 9 May 2007 20:54:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I know some people here have had "success" using a variable water pump speed to "control" temperature in an engine but it is fundamentally flawed when implemented as they suggest after removing the thermostat. Firstly having the full engine and radiator loop in circulation all the time will increase warm-up times but more importantly the only response it has to an over-cooled engine is to slow the pump speed to a point where the EXIT temperature of the engine is OK, but the reduced pump speed means that the water entering the engine will have lingered in the radiator for longer and is now even colder giving a huge temperature gradient across the engine. 🙆🏻 If you leave in the thermostat and run the pump at constant speed (or maybe 80% speed during normal running and 100% when the fan kicks in) then I think it is an excellent idea. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Running an electric pump at variable speeds based on temperature feedback is . The only viable strategy for variable speeds is related to the thermal load. Engine revs are a good approximation of thermal load. Temperature sampled at a single location is *not in any way* a representation of thermal load. An electric pump gives you the option to run flat out all the time and this isn't a bad option except for the electrical load on the alternator. Running without a thermostat has never met with my approval (for road cars). For an EWP implementation, I'd recommend running the pump flat out with a remote thermostat. You need the pump mounted at a point common to the bypass and radiator circuits, which cannot be achieved without a remote thermostat. For race cars, run the pump flat out with no thermostat and blank off areas of the radiator depending on air temp. The last bit of a finessed implementation would be to reduce the pump speed at idle. On a programmable ECU this might be viable if it can provide a pulse width modulated output (like an injector output). The load is far too high for the ECU to drive directly, but the output could be integrated as the input to a high power pulse width speed controller with sufficient power capability (I have one from a drag racing radio controlled car). Anybody want a brand new Davies Craig EWP80 pump complete with my PWM controller? I have it sitting having bought and never implemented. Offers? Edited by - Peter Carmichael on 10 May 2007 10:51:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Peter, How much do you want? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 a set of oilskins and a gel saddle cover should cover it 😬 N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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