Tyre and Wheel Sizes

[Powderpuff]

Let me start by saying despite me having to find an alternative to my ACB's overall I'm in favour of the changes...however it does seem somewhat odd that the ACB's being banned decision will not be reviewed or delayed as it was decided at the forum, but that further modification to the regs not having been discussed at the forum is being considered (the 215 width limit -if it was discussed then I stand corrected).

 

Surely if the tech forum is the place to decide rule changes, then anything not discussed there should wait til next year (with the obvious exception of rule clarifications as needed ad hoc)...seems slightly 'double standard' to me.

 

Albert

 

Edited by - Albert Hall on 27 Nov 2006 22:17:21

[david nelson]

I can not see the problem.

 

The tyre width was not discussed at the tech forum but the width has been restricted. I see no problem with this. If it had been 205 I would have been more vocal.

 

That the Tech forum there must have been about 50 people so a large number. We discussed the issues and it was agreed that the changes would take place this year. I think the ACB this is a red hearing as when the question was put ot the ACB runners if they would buy new tyres for next year the majority said they were planning too.

 

I can not see how changing from cross plys to radials is going to cost anything. If the acb 10 cost £540 and radial say £300 i have saved £140. My rims take either type of tyre. If i wanted to change from 7 1/2 rears new inner rims from MB are about £60 each (I have some in the garage anyway).

 

If the x-plys had gone on for another year the top runnners would still be using them, the new potental sprinters would be unhappy and we would not have moved forward.

 

 

David

[Davey Bee]

Danny Boy, you are right that I have not competed at many events. The reason for this is that spent all of last winter and most of the summer rebuilding my car so that I was able to compete in class 5 with a car that would be competitive against the BEC. I've gone down what is for 2006 a unconventional route in sticking with 1980's technology with a Vx engine (all be it with an alloy block). I was really looking forward to getting to grips with both sprinting and the car next season. However as I see it (and I can be corrected) these rules benefit BEC with their relatively low power, which can be used to the max on smaller tires because of the nimbleness afforded by its low weight. To combat this I have built a high powered car with what we believe is an excess of torque, but all this is only good if I can use it as early as possible coming out of bends. Hence wider rear tires. In all honesty I now feel that I should of built a BEC which given the rule changes will give them a huge advantage.

Having spent the better part of a year and small amount of money 😬 getting to this point then I am more than a little peeved to find that my work as been in vain.

However putting my biases aside I really don't feel that the rule changes and the lack of time to implement them are not to the good of the championship. Lighter cars need less rubber on the road, in fact they work better with less tyre width. Which make these changes a BEC charter, I confident that this was not intended.

Yes I can go to class 6 but I want to be able to use my car on the road, so it would be compromised. I was also under the impression that class 5 was for the ultimate road going Se7en.

I hate being discourteous to other members as I know that there is a lot of time and effort put into running such events and more often these things are done with little or no self interest, But I do feel very strongly about this

 

R600 VX here

 

Edited by - Davey Bee on 28 Nov 2006 08:13:16

[Grahame W]

Surely the benefits that are coming out of the concensus is that IF there is going to be a new 'must have' tyre, (Kumho?) that you quick guys will still be quick on them, that being available in 13 and 15 inch sizes means that the 13 inch ACB 10 runners do not need to buy new rims, non ACB 10 runners can upgrade to a stickier tyre without the suspension set up/road manners hurdles, 15 inch class 4/5 can move from 1A rubber with just a tyre change, and many of the new cars delivered on 15 inch wheels can move to competitive rubber when they want. The biggest loser would appear to be anyone running 14 inch rims in class 4/5 for which In believe there are no soft Kumho's, but have no idea how many this affects.

It therefore seems very few will have the expense of new rims, and it is those with stock piles of ACB 10's who unfortunately will pay for what otherwise is a more open and inclusive set of regs.

[Mark Durrant]

Davey Bee

 

I appreciate your frustration and I should point out that road legal cars can run in Class6 so I am not sure why you feel moving to this class would compromise using it for the road

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[DSL]

DaveyB, you may be rather surprised if you ever get the chance to drive a Busa seven on list 1b radial tyres (let alone 1a's), as I was 😳

 

Due to the very free reving & instant power delivery, they break the tyres traction MUCH easier than any car engine & once that grip is broken the engine revs up so quickly you tend to snap sideways much more aggressivly than any car engined seven would do. I drove my Busa on the local test track 😬 on the CR500's & in the dry the tyres spun up all the way through 4th gear, by contrast my R400 can's budge them in a straight line once into second.

 

To be honest it realy would'nt matter what tyre was available to use, for this game the BEC engine is the solution for the quickest times *thumbup*

 

As a plus point, by setting your car up to use the 1b radial tyres, your car will be a better road car than running a compromised crossply set up *thumbup*

 

Or just bolt a set of extra wide slicks onto it, & give it the grip it realy deserves & help bolster the numbers in class 6 😬

 

See you next year

[Simon.Rogers1]

Davey - Never mind that you've built a quick vx car (did I really say that )

 

The regs as were or as is proposed will not make much difference to the time differential between BEC's, K's or VX.

 

It's quite a strange situation really. Anyone who knows me will testify that I am competitive however i did not and do not find that when running at a sprint that I am bothered whether someone else's car has a particular advantage or not. It is my own times I am concerned with. Certainly I use others around who's potential I am aware of as a guide/target. But these are just as likely to be Class 3 or Class 6 as Class 5.

 

When competing you will soon find that on a certain circuit you should be within a few secs of say DSL in the BUSSA. I was certainly pleased with my time at Harewood given the driving style I had to adopt due to the engine problems. I had targeted 60secs after practice 1 and got to within 0.05 I think. DSL was as I'm sure he will remind me 2.75 secs quicker. His time gives me a benchmark along with the guys in 3 that the time was probably quite good.

 

Similarly at both Mira and Longcross 2 Andy Griff was there in 5 with the BEC. I know in all reallity he will be quicker. Average driver 😬 + quick car will beat me. But its a damn good "rush" trying to get as close as possible and making him think about it!

 

At Loton I was closer than I thought and lost my last run cos Bacon Butty broke my paddle shift

 

What I'm saying is come and have a go. It will take you a year or so to get confident with the circuit etc.

 

Put your big lightweight VX up against me. Cooommmmm On. Kumho's are cheaper anyway. And I've got Brand New - not on the rim ACB10's sitting there.

[DSL]

Simon, was 2.93 sec's actually

 

But like you say, without doubt the buzz is beating your own benchmarked time's, & finding one or two people who may be a little faster than you & aiming to beat them. Along with enjoying the fun competative needle that goes hand in hand with that *thumbup*

 

 

[Gambo]

Dave, Us VX drivers are always at a disadvantage. A couple of years ago , I was about to really go for it , so to speak, but then I realised that my iron block was always going to hinder me, also I'm lacking a bit a talent , plus I don't get then seat time I should for various reasons. So now I look at each event with my own goals and see how close I can get to them. This year at MIRA ( my first visit) I was very happy that I got amongst some regulars on ACB's in K's with my VX on 048's. Simon's right, the competitor in me wants to win, but I now enjoy beating my own targets, If I win all the better.

Come on give it a bash next year. For one thing It would be good to meet you, and you could see your old block again. 😬

 

RED 2.0 HPC 230BHP

[Tony Abbatiello]

Dave

I also beleive that class 5 is for ultimate road cars and its always nice to see cars that have been modified from standard (Dave J's car Darrells BDG your VX and BEC cars). You mention that you want to run wide rubber, I may be wrong but the ACB10's maximum width is 8x22. If I am correct and the new allowed tyre is a Kumho 215 then you aren't loosing any tyre width. These tyres are sub standard to the ACB10 (performance wise) as they are heavier and not quite as sticky but trust me they are close, close enough for it to make very little difference when you go to a new venue. Take Harewood for instance, I spent most of the day trying to remember where the next corner went and never did manage to get the last complex of bends remotely correct. I could have been in a 2cv and not been any quicker round the last two corners (slight exaggeration but you get the picture).

So try them and have a go, they will make it much nicer on the road anyway.

I beleive the rules for class five are fine but it is a shame that the guys who already have ACB10's didn't get a years grace (or at least a one set of tyres grace).

[Davey Bee]

1st thanks for all the encouragement, that's what makes this club in my eyes such a great one. I did spit my dummy out a little the other night. However my concern is not so much the type of tyre but the width that will be allowed and the fact this can be changed without any real consultation. I currently run 235 on 9" rears anyone that was at Curborough will remember that I was struggling to control the power out of most of the bends even with these. Like I said in an earlier thread the change to radials is not too bad for me as I do not have any ACB10's that I was going to use next year. I have set the car up though for X-ply and it will be a (admitably minor) expense to alter it. But over all what I'm unhappy about is the way in which the changes have been made. Like I said I have gone to a lot of time and trouble building the car for class 5 and then within 24 hours half of that work as been put to waste, without even a few months grace to see if it all works. If this is allowed to be carried through what is to stop the powers that be, saying that 2008 class 5 is for 200bhp engines only or some such other rules.

As for class 6 I now have a car that can run at the back of class 5 why move up, to run at the back of class 6. For me to be happy in that class I would have strip the car, therefore I would not be able to run it on the road.

Lastly before someone states the obvious, I know that I'm a crap driver but if I the car right, it is then clear what i need to improve *tongue*. There is method in my madness 😬

I really do want to compete next year, that is why I'm so annoyed

 

R600 VX here

 

Edited by - Davey Bee on 28 Nov 2006 21:59:09

 

Edited by - Davey Bee on 28 Nov 2006 22:01:00

[DSL]

DaveyB, don't worry about more draconian changes next year I think you will find that all the pain is going to be over & done with in one foul swoop ❗

 

You could always offer a duel drive of your car with Brodie or DJ then see how she performs, you might be surprised just how competitive it is even on narrow radial tyres 😬 *thumbup*

[Davey Bee]

Darren, you sad Bas***d, we really need to get a life. Its 10pm and all that we can do is sit around the PC. Hell no...Dave or Brodie driving my car would not make me feel better In my world I'm a lot faster, but they would put me in the real world... not good ❗

 

R600 VX here

[DSL]

😬 😬 *thumbup*