Dave McCulloch Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The new belltank has a very small hole in the top through which its dipstick passes - only about 1cm diameter. The instructions say to fill the 4l oil into the belltank. How do people do this? I could get a small funnel, but it strikes me it's going to be rather slow. Can I just put all 4l into the engine through the cam cover filler, then crank engine with inertia switch disconnected until I get oil pressure? Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Dave doesn't the whole cap come off inc the dipstick etc Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidvoas73 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 From the assembly guide: 31 The engine oil system should be filled via the screw cap on the top of the engine. Extra oil is required in the dry sump system so the initial fill should be as detailed in Section 10, Table 1. Dry sump (standard) 4.5 litre Dry sump and oil cooler 5.0 litre Dry sump and oil/air separator 7.5 litre Dry sump and oil/air separator and oil cooler 8.0 litre If this is a new engine then crank for oil pressure, otherwise not neccessary (assuming you had oil in the engine before ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 WARNING DO NOT PUT 4L INTO THE ENGINE AND CRANK FOR OIL PRESSURE. If you do this you will wreck your engine, oil needs to be in the dry sump bulk tank or bellhousing tank before you crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidvoas73 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Intrigued to know why you do not recommend cranking for oil pressure with oil filled via cam cover, as this contradicts the Caterham Assembly guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Mark The latest design belltank has a dipstick which screws into a 10mm dia hole in the top of the conning tower. The part it screws into is held into the top of the conning tower by about 8 caphead bolts. It seems bizarre that I would have to undo 8 bolts just to fill with oil! Rob - I wouldn't want to start the engine without oil in the belltank, but was thinking I could simply crank it to transfer the oil to the belltank (though I'd be happier not doing this). Interested in what others did who've buiilt cars recently with the current design. If there's no other suggestions I'll probably get a small funnel and (slowly!) fill the belltank. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankyknuckles Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 From memory, the whole cap of the DS tower unscrews independent of the 8 caphead bolts which simply just hold the top plate on. I have always filled directly to the engine via cam cover for the most part and only put about 1 litre through the small hole and never had any problems. www.R300.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Dave, How about a photo so we can see what we're all trying to talk about? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 The confusion is as a result of there being several desings of belltank coning towers . One is completly removable with one screw top , another has the 8 cap head screws . I used to put 4L in the belltank and the rest in the cam cover. You will need to unscrew the 8 capheads - another poor design idea as a solution to the original problem of the oil dipstick unscrewing itself and the coning tower top leaking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McCulloch Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 Dave Thanks - will undo the 8 caphead screws and fill through there. I'll take some pics as I do it so everyone can see the new "improved" design! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Williams Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Dave, with the later type I think if you loosen the 8 capheads a couple of turns the whole thing will then unscrew. You might have to take the breather hose off first Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Wavydave, (1)Because oil putting 4l into a dry sumped engine will result in the oil level being high enough to contact the pistons when the crank rotates (2) if all your oil is in the engine an none in your bulk supply tank then no oil will be fed back to the oil pump and be pumped around the engine until such time that the scavenge pump has been able to shift enough oil into the bulk tank to get above the outlet and feed the engine pressure pump. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cook Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Why not just fill through the dip stick hole. It's not as though you'd be doing it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Rob: ''if all your oil is in the engine an none in your bulk supply tank then no oil will be fed back to the oil pump and be pumped around the engine until such time that the scavenge pump has been able to shift enough oil into the bulk tank to get above the outlet and feed the engine pressure pump.'' Isn't that the point for cranking the engine (with plugs out and crank sensor disconnected) until you achieve pressure? ''Because oil putting 4l into a dry sumped engine will result in the oil level being high enough to contact the pistons when the crank rotates '' With the wet sump set up with appollo (after oil / filter change both will be empty) one needs to add 7.5 litres, all into the engine. Surely there will be oil in conact with the pistons then? Should I be putting half in and cranking the engine to fill the appollo, then adding the remainder? No doubt I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Englishmaninwales, Yes your missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Rob I think you mean ''you're'' But that doesn't answer the query....... Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cook Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Now now girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Malcolm, I suspect you're right . Whilst I am not convinced about the oil coming all the way up into the piston liners it is likely to be up around the bottom of the crank which will mean the starter is having a hard(er) time churning the oil with the crank. "Dry sumpers" could obviously prime the bell tank by removing the belt and winding over with an air ratchet if it is easier than taking a cover off the tank (haven't seen one so can't really comment). Following a wet sump oil change (with Apollo fitted), I generally fill with c. 4.5l as per the standard installation then run at tickover until oil pressure is there on the gauge indicating that the tank is full. Then I stop the engine and add the balance of the oil. Whilst I would crank for oil pressure on a new build to give confidence that oil pressure will happen you would be unfortunate not to get oil pressure after an oil change! Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Ian Thanks. I shall change my refill proceedure. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveP Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 With regards to the dry sump setup, I too was warned very strongly about just filling the engine with oil through the cam cover, say after an oil change, and not putting any in the bellhousing tank. Reason being (and I assume it to be the case even if you are cranking it over without plugs etc) is that if all the oil is in the sump pan, then it will take some seconds for the scavenge pump to suck it all out and return it to the belltank. During this period the main oil pump is starved of oil and as such so are are the bits that need it (bearings, etc). This is enough time to do some nasty and expensive damage Dry sump pan is very shallow as you would expect and isn't designed to hold all that oil anyhow, hence what Rob is saying about pistons hitting oil (although first time I've heard this, but makes sense) Can't comment on the 8 cap screws on the conning tower though, since mine is the older design where the top simply screws off for filling. SteveP The Caterham Pages here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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