knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Having had my cams set up by SW Lotus I spent the day with Steve Greenald on the Road n Track rolling road yesterday and am very pleased with the results. Had a few things explained along the way about how the mapping is done and the way they do various throttle points at each part of the rev range. Its all rather interesting if a little complicated. And also my ignition map is very different to both of the R300s he's previously done, proving the point that sharing a map could have blown my engine up. I have sheets of paper with all sorts of figures on from the final power run. The car is lovely to drive. So much more pull low down, even more than since my verniers were fitted. Smooth as silk, idle is lovely and when cruising on the motorway at 5000rpm she feels much more relaxed. And OMG does it rev more freely... I think I am really feeling the light fly wheel now. I could feel less top end grunt after the verniers, this is still apparent but it feels like it has been lessened and smoothed out a little. All in all I am very pleased! 😬 😬 My final figures are: 160.9 bhp @ 6750 140.0 lbft @ 4445 Graph 7 only day @ Mallory - 06/08/05 R300 Register My R300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Couldn't read what engine you got from the graph? By the way YHM 😬 C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 John nice result Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 That will be a 'K' then Carbon Components from K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 xxx.9bhp - just as well BC has gone members-only.... proving the point that sharing a map could have blown my engine up No it doesn't - proves something about R300 maps though... But that was covered in the previous thread... Glad you're pleased though. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Ahh sorry, yes its an R300 (1.8k on TB). David, will check my mails tonight 7 only day @ Mallory - 06/08/05 R300 Register My R300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Sorry Myles I don't follow I was trying to say that even though the other R300s are supposed to be the same the maps are quite different, possibly partly down to cam timing. It was explained to me that the ignition part of my map is surprisingly different, so much so that using someone elses remapped ecu "could" have caused me problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 xxx.9bhp - just as well BC has gone members-only Whats that about then? The R300 NUT'errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 There would have been a torrent of rude remarks about the .1 hp under 170 C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Under 161 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Maybe it was a different thread - the point was made in relation to the accuracy of rolling-roads. Quoting to tenths of a hp is a bit pointless given the factors that can affect the measurement - quoting to single-figures is about the sharpest resolution that makes sense. I usually quote mine as 180+ bhp these days - even though the actual peak was 183(.1!) Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Knowley - getting tired 161 it is. 😳 C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 That's what I meant Myles. Precision rolling roads. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Yep, everything effects it... I just copied what the computer printed out, I feel confident that its reasonably accurate for all the parameters at the time of the power run. I guess on the way home as the evening chill came in I had 161.1 bhp 😬 Edited by - knowley on 18 May 2005 22:41:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 R300s are supposed to be the same the maps are quite different, possibly partly down to cam timing. This sounds odd too (but I wouldn't put it past CC given some of my locals experiences of R3 and 400s...) They don't run verniers as std. do they? If not (and I suspect not), then the timing should be fixed (unless they've revised the cams over time) - and CC don't map each car individually... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 No they don't run them as standard. All of our cars have started off with different timings, the inlet differences are very marginal - between .020" and .022" whereas the exhaust differences are between .061" and .087", how much of a differnce this makes I do not know know. The other thing mentioned a lot was how my car was responding differently to the ignition... I got a bit lost at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I suppose that would account for you getting home at 9-30 pm The R300 NUT'errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Lost!! Edited by - Bafty Crastard on 18 May 2005 23:05:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 ==== All in all I am very pleased! ==== Seems clear from all the feedback that getting an R300 re-mapped leaves the owner with a big 😬 .... myself included. However, its interesting to hear that the ignition is "so" different from other R300s. Im no expect on such things, but any "tuners" that Ive spoken to all say that the ignition map for most k-series (or any particular engine type) of a given cc will be very similar. From the +ve feedback, Im sure Steve knows his stuff ... I was just wondering if you think he meant your engine was "special" compared to the usual R300s, or is it a case of all R300s are different from each other? Did yours do the old "bunny hopping" tricks? ... and if so, did the tuneup help in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I had my Supersport R mapped by Steve in early April. Must say, I can still get the car to Bunny hop if I'm not paying attention. But its a lot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Yep mine did and still does bunny hop, although its less of an occurance so far. Its down to the injectors apparently, 1.5ms was mentioned and they showed me mine try and run at under that. Under light throttle they open and close very quickly because they are too large for what is required of them which induces the hopping - only changing the injectors would cure this completely. (I am no expert but it seemed to make sense). 7 only day @ Mallory - 06/08/05 Caterham R300 Owners Register My R300 Edited by - knowley on 19 May 2005 09:14:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Yep Steve mentioned the injectors to me. But I'm not going to go to the expense of new injectors I'll just have to upgrade the engine to match the injectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Was talking to Sid the RR man at Curborough on Saturday who mentioned that in his view Magneti Morelli (?spelling) ECUs were top as you can map each individual cylinder and even deliberately run them differently to get the best overall result. Takes a time to map an engine though... His list of top makes was quite interesting. I run an Omex and he liked those but was a bit rude about some makes (no names, no pack drill). He likes lots of mapping points to get the best out of an engine it seems. From the little I know, I'd share your view that maps will vary between engines of the same type, although I guess that for a very basic ECU the differences might be largely unnoticed. I'm not a tecchie though, so may be talking carp. I wonder whether your lightened flywheel affects things as by its nature the engine will accelerate faster than a similar engined car with a heavier flywheel, even though ultimate power will be unaltered? In practice a clockwork ignition/carb setup ran fine for most engines so I guess that unless you borrow a map that is marginal in that it gives your engine too much advance and too little fuel at high revs, you should be OK. And doesn't the standar SLR ignore barometric pressure anyway? You may lose power/flexibility though. In most cases mapping seems to be a compromise unless you throw serious time and money at it. Cold start requires a number of cold starts = lots of days. Barometric pressure affects things too so mapping in different conditions should help; temperature likewise. RRs also ignore the effects of ram air (?right phrase) at speed. So I guess that ideally, you'd tweak your map (to allow for engine wear too) periodically. Maybe connecting up a Lambda can help? (I guess as long as you remember that stoichometric is not always what you want. I fancy the sort of systems pro racers use i.e. switchable maps for different conditions - 1 for racing; 1 for qualifying; 1 for the wet; 1 for traffic/pace car laps; 1 for fuel economy etc. Would cost a lot more than the car though and it may be OTT for the crossflow... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Emerald are supposed to be releasing a SW update that allows for two maps - switchable on the move. The main application is for the forced-induction boys, but DW did suggest it'd be ideal for a poor-fuel (i.e. non-SUL) map. They are also supposed (don't hold your breath for any of this...) to be releasing an update that can take full-advantage of a wideband lambda (got one installed at the mo. in anticipation) that would (if I understand it correctly) allow you to take a base-map and then let the ECU migrate itself towards a more appropriate map based on a target-AFR map. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowley Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Why do people remove their MBE systems and install Emerald? (I've been told by two completely different engine tuners doing that would effectively be a downgrade) Edited by - knowley on 19 May 2005 15:47:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Considering the aspects of the system that you actually use I find it hard to consider it a downgrade. The reason for trading is usually Availability of maps Availability of software Availability of expertise I haven't found any disability to manifest itself when using an Emerald ECU. One pretty important factor is the support and response to customer feedback with Emerald. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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