Engines for the 7

[dino]

I am looking at putting together a 7 and am wondering what type of engine i would use. I know the ford's are very big with the 7 but i am thinking along the lines of a Honda. They rev higher and put out more power per liter. The engine I’m looking into is the B16A (1.6L 160hp) but then I run into the problem of trannies. Honda does not have a rear wheel drive car (S2000 is to new to steal a tranny out of).

 

So is this just a pipe dream or has some one done this already? Or is someone thinking about it?

 

Thanks

 

[Bob Corb]

I agree, a Honda engine would be just superb in a 7. Unfortunately, all bar the S2000 motor definitely spin the wrong way. They can be converted to spin the other way at great cost but even then I'm sure the pistons would still be offset the wrong way and it would wear out the bores and slap badly. I'm not sure if the S2000 engine spins the same way as the rest and they just have their diffs the other way up to others?? I did see an S2000 drivetrain for sale for £3000 but it would be difficult to install that lot in a 7 also. Thought about buying an Omatic?? They will use Honda parts apparently.

 

It would be safer to use a Honda bike engine like everyone else.

 

By the way if I wanted a tranny in my 7 I would buy one from a reputable car audio installer, stealing a tranny from a Honda is illegal and is not a worthwhile way of cutting build costs.

[dino]

Could you tell me more about the Omatic, never heard of them. just did a search and found this on maxpower

"How does 600bhp per tonne sound? Well that's exactly what you get when you strap yourself in the new Lotus 7-style Omatic. Powered by the Honda S2000's 240bhp lump this thing is a real sports bike killer. But fear not if that sounds a bit of a handful, there's a 1.6-litre Vauxhall engine in the range, which starts at £9000.

"

wow, now thats a car. Could you point me to some info on Omatic, cant find there web site

 

thanks

 

[Brad Tipp]

http://www.omatic.com/

 

 

T 1 PPB - Superlight

 

"Well yes officer i'm not arguing, it's just that [insert excuse here]..."

[EFA]

Omatic is pretty obviously somebody testing the market who has made little or no investment at this time.

 

I filled in a request for more info about 3 weeks ago and to date have not even received an email confirmation!

 

The Honda engine lacks torque in any case, and is too tall.

 

Caterham (who do actually invest in R&D) have the right idea.

 

A K Series if you want sharpest possible turn in, a Vauxhall if you want reliable grunt, or a bike engine if you want a laugh!

 

Am I in trouble now? - Yes

Do I care? - No

 

 

 

Fat Arn

See another FAT ARNIE here

See a meaty Vauxhall car here

See the Le Mans Trip Website here

See the Lotus Seven Club North Kent Website here

 

[Robster]

Blackbird, K series, Vauxhall power (sorry Arnie)...it just is not the future. I have just been out for a demo in a W****ld with a Hyabusa engine...the holy grail of engines! Wow, keep your car engines, old technology, heavy, keep your blackbird engines, they are just wannabe hyabusas without the grunt. The engines are 185 bhp as standard, costs £2000 to tune to over 200 and for the princely sum of £4000...turbo charged and 370 bhp! TTS will give you a 1600version..the sky's the limit. I bet if Suzuki supplied the units new, the Blackbird would never have been born. I just want to know who will fit a 'busa lump in my Caterham.

[oilyhands]

The 'busa is rated at 175, but that's splitting hairs, it is indeed a wonderful engine and unusually for a bike engine has a healthy torque curve too with the power being made relatively low in the RPM range.

 

Oily

[sevenbeards]

Robster - I agree on the VX front. They're highly competent engines but I don't think they are the way forward. Honda, on the other hand...

 

Arnie - I think you are being unfair. How can you complain about the Honda engine lacking torque but then go onto praise a bike engine? I don't recall any direct complaints from road testers about torque with the S2000, just a few passing comment with regards to high-up power. Bear this in mind for a car weighing twice as much!

 

The Honda is surely the essential choice for people who like the appeal of the bike engine, but are put off by the oddball transmission and worrying reliability, yet find a regular car engine too stale and conventional.

[kenny.]

You will need to spend a lot of money to get power/torque from a bike engine to compare it even with a well thrashed 90,000 miler VX XE on second hand 45's.

 

Kenny HPC

 

PS It may handle better though!!!!

 

 

[Red SLR]

Talking to a track day company owner he said this year he has seen about 25 bike powered cars, of those almost half did not make a full track day as the bike engine went bang. After seeing this I would not touch one with a long pointy stick.

 

I have personaly seen 2 go myself and they were both not really being that thrashed.

 

If money is no object and you dont mind having to make a lot of the parts I would go for a Honda 2.2 VTEC out of the Accord Type R. 212 BHP as STD and no too heavy.

 

A decent ecu and TBs and you will be looking at 230bhp I would say, that is R500 power.

 

Only problem is they are not too easy to get hold of. If you want a common engine to the 7 just stick with an 1800K series. Atleast that way you know the parts from the factory will fit.

 

 

X777CAT

[williams_dr]

Hi all,

 

First time poster here.

 

I was interested to see the high mortality rate of the bike engined cars to which Simon referred.

 

Can't be sure, of course, but I'd just about bet my paycheck that 80% or 90% of them were due to oil pickup problems. A poorly thought out bike engine installation is doomed in a car driven with any kind of vigor. Bike engines are designed to be leaned way over while under hard cornering, which keeps the oil from surging way to one side of the pan as in a car. Stick that motor in a car going full tilt through a long-ish corner without either a dry-sump, or some serious baffling, and you're done.

 

With a properly engineered installation, I can't see why a bike engine would be any less reliable on the track than a car engine.

 

Dave

[dino]

What about a RX7 engine, those rotary engines are very light and rev very high. If you were to get the turbo rotary 1.3L it should provide enough power to really make a seven fly. The only problem is you have to make room for the inner cooler and other crap, but rotaries are very small. Anyone ever do this??

[Norman Tebbit]

There's a "tranny" driving a cop car up North I'm told!

[Dave M]

Dino,

 

The rotary Turbo has been done here in OZ. Andy reckon 350HP.

 

http://board.performanceforums.com/board/viewthread.php?TID=467&FID=8

 

Dave

 

Edited by - Dave M on 26 Aug 2001 23:07:03

[hugh]

why not use a 1700 crossflow buy one second hand(an ex caterham unit can be bought for £500-800 complete with ancilleries)and use the balance of your war chest to uprate the crossflow you could most certainly bring it up to a 150-170 bhp dry sumped bhp unit for less than the price of installing a similar K-SERIES, ZETEC, 16valve vx, motor bike unit, they are more suitable for diy maintenance, no electronic management systems catalyitic exaust systems no special bellhousings (2litre ohc ford unit available in the scrapyard near you),it is a cheap option a you would have a club roadgoing sprint/hillclimb car for the weekend which should be able to hold its own

[Blackbirdman]

Dave

 

I agree with you about the oiling issue. A well sorted dry sump system will cure this. I have heard that a dry sump is an option on the We5tfield megabusa and blade. Remember the original Caterham bird was developed for racing and did the Nurburgring 24hr with no engine failures in three cars (major shunts aside).

 

My personal experience is you get no warning of low oil pressure before the bang when the engine is doing 11,000. sad.gif

 

Dino

 

There has been a rotary engine 7 in the UK for many years. Stunning noise and acceleration, can be seen in the summer at the Norfolk/Suffolk meeting.

 

Matt

 

 

 

Is it a bike? Is it a car? No it's Blackbirdman cool.gif