Steering kick back on bumpy roads

[Jonathan Kay]

Well done.

If the tracking is out you might get unnecessary tyre wear: how old are they?

Jonathan

[madmaninshed]

Hi Jonathan, They are brand new, but only Toyo Proxes CF2's at 40 Euros on offer.

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks

I'd get the alignment checked.

Jonathan

[7 wonders of the world]

Why do people just guess at what is a critical area of geometry set up.....???  

Throwing some bits of Ally under the rack and maybe getting the tracking done..... with no idea of what it was, what it is now and what it will be once you've reset the front alignment... 

Whats wrong with doing a job properly, and getting a safe car...?   

[22daz]

I think that's a bit harsh. I bought my first Seven to learn about this sort of thing and you learn by trial and error. 
Add a 2mm spacer, realign myself take it for a spin. Is it better? Add another spacer.. Etc

He's already said it has much improved how it drives, so that in itself is safer than Caterhams original offering. 
I'm sure he could have taken it to DPR and thrown a wad of money at it, but that's surely missing the point.

The satisfaction of sorting something like this yourself is off the scale compared to not knowing how or why and handing over a cheque.

22daz

 

[SM25T]

Especially when based overseas !

[7 wonders of the world]

Maybe it was a tad harsh,

the point I am making is very simple if your not sure what you doing please don't mess, the consiquences could be serious, saying a car feels better is one thing knowing its safe and predicalble through the full range of suspension travel is very different.

you don't want to hit full travel only to find you have very dangerous characterisitics - too late then.....

Check it first, then consider adjusting, you don't need overly complex gear to do so, simple laser light, and a cardboard scale will give a clear indication, but again you must check both wheels, dont assume the other will be the same - they aren't.

a little knowldege can be a dangerous thing - especially on set up and geometry, were it that easy CC would have done it correctly in the frst place !

 

[madmaninshed]

I do understand what you are saying 7 Wonders. TBH I am a bit out of my depth. In the U.K., I would have gone to a recommended professional, but out here, wheel alignment is a joke. I have now found a company with a laser set-up, so I plan to go there soon.  I used masking tape to indicate the precise position of the steering rack before removing it, and marks to show the top, in case it rotated in the clamps when I added the spacers. The first time, it didn't move, so when I went back and added an extra spacer, I didn't use tape. The rack rotated a fraction, causing the column to just touch against the engine.  I loosened the bolts, rotated it back a tad, and all seems fine. There is a shoulder on the rack that fits snugly to the clamp on the passenger side, so I am sure the rack is positioned correctly left to right, but I am not 100% certain about the rotation. The column clears everything. Is this critical please? The car corners beautifully now over the bumps. I have to drive it for 20 mins to the tracking place, and hope there are some front tyres left when I get there.

[SM25T]

It certainly transformed our car.

[7 wonders of the world]

Please make sure they check and adjust it with you or equivalent ballast on board too.

If you have a flat area at home, or and area you could make flat by checking with a spirit level and using thin plywood shims under the wheels this kit offer good repeatable results with a little guidance on use...

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/trackace-laser-wheel-alignment-gauge-t-atag01/?istCompanyId=a2904180-3a7d-4e56-b876-cf81c9512180&istFeedId=6fbc4b04-fd28-4ce1-8513-835c8f118690&istItemId=wptrpaqqq&istBid=t&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv6TIxc6i_wIVC-vtCh1utQXuEAQYBCABEgLxrPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

you can also get well priced castor camber guages too.....

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/gunson-trakrite-camber-gauge-t-cgun77066/

 

 

[22daz]

Rotating the rack a tiny bit isn't critical as the tie rods that come out of it are on a ball joint. The track rod end is itself is also a ball joint. 
The most important part now is getting the wheel alignment correct. Your tyres will be fine for a short journey like that in such a light car. 
22daz
 

[madmaninshed]

Thank you 7 Wonders. I could buy the same camber gauge, sold as manufactured by EMVANV by Amazon.fr for only 21.99 Euros delivered, and the same alignment system for 109 Euros odd (again sold under another name) -  so not a problem. 2 years ago, tracking here was 75 Euros. I believe this alignment system is just for the front wheels though, and then do I need a castor gauge, and a steering wheel clamp, or will the wife do? It would be good to do it myself.  Thanks 22 Daz, that's very good to know.

[madmaninshed]

Just a thought - is the rear wheel alignment adjustable on a de Dion Caterham Supersprint please?

[7 wonders of the world]

Yes for camber and toe via shimming, 

you need to ensure the rear end is set perpendicular to the chassis too otherwise you could inadvertently induce crabbing 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

One thought Paul if you are looking at large rear camber changes, the shim kits are a bit of a hack from a clamping surface perspective, as the suspension ear has a wedge contact surface with the deDion tube. You can also use different angled Caterham supplied ears or machine the existing ones. I used a machined wedge-shaped shim to preserve full contact area between the 2 components, something you should be able have a local machinist produce fairly easily:

[madmaninshed]

Thanks James, that is very informative - great pictures, that make understanding easy. Having looked at Trackace videos, I feel fairly confident that I can do the front tracking, and also the camber, with a gauge.  I simply don't trust most garages out here. We have a great English mechanic, but he doesn't do tracking. I have the results of the last time the tracking was done in the U.K., which I will try to upload. It was 10 years ago, but the car has only done 1000 miles since.  I also have the Supersprint de Dion tracking spec from 1986. My car is 1989, which I hope is the same....however, I think the spec used, according to the result sheet was for a K series 1991 to 2011, so it looks to me as if it was probably set up completely wrong anyway   
Any comments on the report or whether the 1986 spec is correct for my car would be much appreciated.

[madmaninshed]

Trackace, camber gauge and steering wheel clamp all on their way for under £150 from Amazon.fr so at least the front wheels should soon be pointing the right way, if I have the correct tracking spec?