Upper wishbone ball joint dust cover

[john milner]

2003 SV 80,000ish miles.

I recently had the MOT done and had two advisories for the upper wishbone ball joint dust covers. They are both beginning to break up. I think I need two GAITOR TOP WISHBONE ROD END (QR1798) (https://caterhamparts.co.uk/wishbones/1924-gaitor-top-wishbone-rod-end-qr1798.html?search_query=wishbone+cover&results=208). There is no sign of play so I think the actual joints are still good.

Three questions:

1/ Is the part above correct?

2/ I have split the lower joints a few times with a Laser ball joint separator . Is the process much the same?

3/ I'm assuming that fully supported with axle stands and wheel off is the correct way but I don't want to find out the hard way. Is this correct? Is there something under tension that I need to be concerned about?

 

 

 

[SM25T]

Just use a nut and bolt under the taper pin and on top of the upright under it, once nut on taper pin loosened, unscrew nut and bolt to push taper pin upwards to break taper.

[john milner]

Are you saying that the tool I have will not work or is this an alternative method?

[SM25T]

The tool you have is ok if you can get it in. If you weren't replacing the dust cover it might damage it. A simple nut and bolt of the right length is just cheap and fast

[john milner]

Thanks. I have the tool but probably not the nut and bolt.

[Geoff Brown]

That type of separator can damage the gaiters quite easily. Thankfully you do not have to worry about that. The nut & bolt method is the best solution.

Or one can purchase the ultra expensive patented Caterham ball joint removal tool @ £80 !

[paul richards]

1.Part is correct but I simply ring Redline. 

2. Splitter will do the job if you can get it in.

3. I find it better to use a jack and raise car just enough to unload the spring and leave tyre on the ground otherwise wheel will fall sideways when you release the joint. 
4. Be careful fitting the new rubbers as it's very easy to damage them. I actually find it best to remove the ball joint from the wishbone (carefully counting the turns to make sure it is reassembled correctly) and fitting the new rubber in a vice. I use a piece of round tube the same diameter as the metal on the rubber and slowly squeeze on using the vice. 

[Wrightpayne]

I did pretty much as Paul did (eventually!) First one tried fitting in situ with a couple of pairs of waterpump pliers - managed to nick the rubber and ended having to glue it. Also the pliers damaged the zinc plating on the new seal assembly! It was very difficult because as you applied pressure with the pliers one side of the seal would slip off.

Other side I used an appropriate size hole saw to make a support out of some wood then having removed the joint just pressed the new cover on. I sanded the edge of the cut hole in the wood so as not to cause any more damaged seals!!

When the old covers were off I wiped off the old grease and added a smidgen of new Castrol LM and worked the joint a bit.

[john milner]

Thank you for all the advice. Sounds like a more awkward job than I imagined as I didn't appreciate the difficulties in getting it back together.

The Caterham page for the gaitor suggests a related product for £33 called TOP WISHBONE ROD END DE-DION CARS. Unfortunately clicking the link takes me to a page that says unavailable. If I can track it down would it be an easier to replace the whole thing and have benefit of new ball joints? £12 versus £66 might be worth the additional cost if it saves hassle and has a long term benefit.

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/wishbones/126-top-wishbone-rod-end-de-dion-cars.html

[SM25T]

Go to any motor factors 

[john milner]

I had read somewhere that it was a FSO/Fiat X19 part.

Also just found this https://shop.oakmeremotorgroup.co.uk/product/top-wishbone-rod-end

 

[paul richards]

I found that narrow track suspension caused the rubbers to split quite regularly. So much so that I had to change every couple of years. I therefore bought a few spares. Fitting new rubbers was far more economical than buying new joints. 

[john milner]

80,000 miles in 20 years and the originals are only just starting to go so I am leaning toward replacing the whole unit. I'll either be dead or will have sold it within the next 20 years.

£10.41 each side is looking good https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234850463972?epid=3039430717&hash=item36ae2db0e4:g:ggAAAOSwjUtjuPR1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoM6zIMe6nmJpTa53ZtCIDR1YxbJv34I7A00oROl1Hc2%2BCDPuT5x9XZwB7xmWNVbxqGy6IZAt2x%2Brznjbq9Gq3xwOU6wYFCqXyp5Ek4JxPX2BPJFtF40oNo71bnSDIXTsodcW0jwkgmI8F47GhRwVQ2S0rgt%2FqDVznH29WhQgXsHIN5DQP9S9KqWLcy5ICMtAUMRRGRO2COJxwPLAA5SjidY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DS7PbJYQ

[Neil220]

Are the bottom ones 1/2" as used on Triumph Dolomites and Midgets?

QR1572?

[john milner]

An earlier post has them as the whole unit as QR1118S although the Caterham parts site has the gaitor referencing QR1798.

The Caterham photo and comments have a metal ring on the cover. The Fiat/FSO listings just show a cheapo plastic cover that looks easy to swap using fingers.

[john milner]

An old post. Basically QR1798S is not identical to QR1118S:

https://www.caterhamlotus7.club/comment/1737676

I did some first hand reserch. I had a chat today with the Technical & Training manager of Quinton Hazell about track rod ends. He confirmed that both the QR1798S and the QR1118S rod ends have the same taper of 1:10. The difference is the minor cone diameter which is 15.0mm and a 14.8mm respectively. The effect of this is that the QR1118S ballcentre will be slightly lower, simple trig would estimate around 1mm lower (1:10 taper at 0.1mm). He told me that QH no longer produce the QR1798S joint, so CC must be having them made elsewhere. The other useful bit of info he gave me was that the taper in the original upright is 1:8. He confirmed that the taper of the Triumph (bolt in) balljoint QSJ103 is still 1:8. Previous info from Canley Classics, as an alternative source for uprights, was that the uprights for Triumph and Caterham are the same, at least as far as trunnion type uprights are concerned. So this would mean that cars with upper wishbone conversions (like mine) have a ball joint with the wrong taper angle. What leaves me still concerned is whether when CC specified the lower ball joint to replace the trunnion, did they have the taper for the top ball joint revised? Info from Canley makes me wonder, as they had told me that the uprights are actually produced near them and they now offer a lower ball joint conversion for Triumphs using the CC upright.

[Neil220]

My question was referring to what the bottom parts were.

[john milner]

I don't know but it's most likely whatever was fitted as standard to a SV in 2003.

 

I am getting the feeling that new exact upper rod ends may be out of production but nearly correct ones are easily available.

[SM25T]

#14 .....

 

[john milner]

Is there an equivalents list for QR1798?

[SamC]

Another relevant thread recently.

https://www.caterhamlotus7.club/forum/top-wishbone-end-ball-joint
 

The QH ones weren't appropriate for my CSR. Thread into wishbone was too long meaning you couldn't get the correct camber without cutting down and the thread through the upright resulted in no thread protrusion from the nut.

Bit the bullet and put original ones on which Redline now have in stock (but didn't until last week)

[Mark w]

If anyones looking for a top ball joint (unused) i have one in the garage for the price of a beer.

I also have a brand new bottom wishbone / upright bearing ( bought two but then only fitted one as the other side wasnt worn ) 

 

[Wrightpayne]

Remember there are also two types of lower joint depending on suspension type - the early cars had Triumph trunions and later with the spherical bearing posted by SM25T

[Neil220]

#19

#23

Thanks Both

My car is 1996 and the lower joints have an internal (female) thread which is ½" so not the ones mentioned by SM25T.

Does anyone know if these are QR1572?

[john milner]

I am have a big problem removing the nut from the taper bolt. Most of it undid fairly easily but the end will not go through the nut and the bolt just rotates. I have managed to remove the gaitor and get a pair of grips on the bolt but it is so tight it just slips in the jaws. The end of the bolt looks as though it has a hole in the end. Could this be for an Alllen key or similar to stop the bolt from turning?