Auction Watch - New 360R

[Shropshire AR]

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2019-caterham-seven-360r

[K7 VCT]

Hummmm, kph speedo ?

Car must be before 2014 with those gauges.

Silver fuel cap on black pack car ?

Smells a but fishy, wound want to check chassis number with caterham to find out more ...

No iva done yet....

[paul jacobs]

What would be a good price for this car?  It's already up to £31k with another 27 hours to go.

[ChrisC]

Also not a 360R, especially not a 2019 360R.  Kit from 2015 which would make it a Supersport R.  

[Adam Godfrey]

I think it sounds expensive already when you add the 6% fees.

[heptagon]

I think I've seen that in PH classifieds previously, I thought it was a kit build 

[philwhittaker]

Yes - I also remember this from the discussion on PistonHeads - there was a mistake with the original advert so it was listed as Cat C. It was previously advertised on AutoTrader at £41,995.

[paul jacobs]

Wow, it's done the rounds then.  It looks like a very smart car.  How important is it considered to be that the kit was bought several years ago, but not registered?

Are you certain it isn't a 360R Chris?  What is the difference between a 2019 360R and a 2015 SupersportR, if the latter has been brought up to the 2019 spec?

It's now at £32k + 5%  with only 30 minutes to go.........

[ChrisC]

The kit (based on the vin), was from 2015.   The 360R was released around April time, so kits ordered before April (bare in mind kit lead times) would be Supersport R.    I built a very early 360R.  Early 360R cars have 1/4 sweep instruments, by 2016 they where using the 3/4 sweep instruments.   My early 360R was an October 2015 kit with vin 72503, that car is 72093 nearly 500 cars before my first built kit.   I have never seen an earlier 360R than my build, let along one nearly 500 chassis before. 

It's also missing all the R bits, Instruments, Gear Knob, and there is no picture of the key stocks.  These parts are controlled by Caterham, they won't release them unless you have a R model.    The stickers (rear wing, bonnet and dash) don't look right, but they can be purchased from the online store these days.   Other red flags, why hasn't it got a genuine Caterham badge on the back?

Only the Caterham receipt will tell the full story, but I will eat my hat if it's a 360R from the factory. 

It also doesn't have an IVA, and from the photos my list of rectification work would be as follows (and this is only what I can see):

IVA trim missing on front wings, IVA trim incomplete  on front suspension, IVA trim incomplete on indicator pods, IVA trim missing on exhaust heat shields, grommets missing in head light brackets, headlight wiring requires rework, repeater wiring requires rework and routed incorrectly. IVA wing mirrors missing, Speedo in KPM (needs to read in MPH and KPH), Wrong rear brake pads (so potential brake bias problem),  Rear lights (need to be red not white),  

You also won't be able to claim amateur build, because you have to be in the build photos submitted.  Which means the rules are different, but not 100% sure on the effect of that, I have only IVAed under amateur build rules.  Either way it's another £600 to get a test, and wait before you can use the car on the roads. 

I suspect this is a kit build in the bad old days when builders where hit with big rectification bills at PBC, and the owner decided to go their own way. 

[ChrisC]

Oh as for spec changes between 2015 and 2019 (assuming both are R models)

• Carbon plates (known to wear out) replaced with sintered plated
• Weather gear and boot cover factory fitted
• Rear badge style change (twice)
• Nose badge style change
• Key stock changed from aluminium to plastic (I think for safety)
• Speed sensor design changed
• Rear calipers are new items instead of refurbished units
• Cut down nut replaced with Top hat on upright 
• Headlight design changed
• Instruments changed from 1/4 sweep to 3/4 sweep
• Loom design changed (modular 3 loom introduced , chassis, dash and engine) 
• Dash control module introduced
• Swap to later ECU (from MBE 992 to 9a4)
• Washer bottle relocated to boot (from under plenum)
• Plenum design change
• Radiator deign changed 
• Fan moved from behind radiator 
• Thermostat  (my 360R needed a 82c stat to make the fan / ECU combination to work properly, but not 100% sure on this one)
• Exhaust and primaries are now supplied polished 
• Exhaust heat shield is no longer supplied 
• Tyres CR500 to ZZS

Think that's it, but happy to be corrected 

[paul jacobs]

So, actual purchase price - £33,600.  My guess is that's about right, although nowhere near the reputed asking price on Pistonheads of nearly £42k though.

I think the purchaser should be pleased with that?

[ChrisC]

I think its going to be a £35k (ish) by the time it's on the road. Which seems heavy, but not outlandish.  The buyer has over paid, so will loose some money. The big can of worms is the IVA. Personally, the sun is out and I would want something to drive, not something stuck in the garage for another 6 months, for example there is currently a 420R 2018, with 2000 miles for sale on pistonheads at a well known dealer, for that type of money.   It's more honesty, more powerful and drivable today.       

[heptagon]

Agree #12, auctions are funny places, I'd have put my money on a car with a dealer as well

[Blackmamba]

There is a lot of discussion on other forums about the recent boom in online auctions and CC in particular. They seem to be doing very well for the seller but as a buyer you have to be very careful and know the cars and the market. People have bought cars in the auction for more than they were also listed at a dealer!!