MarkTheGoose Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 So yesterday, traveling two up, on a not especially bumpy road at below 30 mph, moderately loud bang from the left rear corner and I'm suddenly sat in a CSR with very different handling characteristics.I pulled into a side street and had a look and clearly something had broken.A peak underneath revealed that the bottom end of the spring/damper was no longer attached to the upright - it’s mounting point on the upright appears to have sheared.Now recovered back to my garage and I’ll go take a look later, with it jacked up & the wheel off - I’ll post some more pictures then.A few initial questions: Caterham seem to want £1,300 for the part and it’s made to order (i.e. not available!). https://caterhamparts.co.uk/csr/1840-rear-upright-assembly-lh-csr.html - Are there other sources? Any informed guidance as to if the part could be repairable - would gaffer tape & bluetak hold it together? Anything I should be aware of as I start to take it apart - is there a CSR rear suspension assembly guide anywhere? It’s chassis number 18, so a very early car and this looks to be fatigue. Is it likely that the right hand side is going to go the same way?All guidance and experiences very welcome, thanks...(please don't tell me not to attempt to repair it with gaffer tape!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted July 11, 2020 Member Share Posted July 11, 2020 Private Message sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Looking at your photos and the pictures on the caterham parts website I wonder if you only need the bit in the picture below rather than the whole kit.....I have no experience of CSRs - just got my best glasses on studying the pictures ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted July 11, 2020 Leadership Team Share Posted July 11, 2020 Mark - what dreadful luck (but, on the other hand, fortunate that it let-go in such benign circumstances).First thing, I'd say, is to get the broken parts removed to see if repair is possible. It's not exactly clear from your photos what part has failed. So we're talking about removing the hub carrier I guess (which will probably mean bringing the driveshaft with it).If you're working on it this morning, I'm happy to come round and give a hand (or moral support, whatever).James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 By the look of it there was all ready a massive crack on the damper support, it looks like the top ball joint part broke and maybe CC can sell u just this part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian.britnell Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Hi Markprior to my ownership one of the "toe link tabs" on the rear upright of my CSR was broken, I think it was broken in error whilst assembling or jacking up so not in use.The broken lug was welded back on and knowing the owner it would have been done properly and not by a "chap round the corner " It may be possible to repair by welding by a certified welder ...... a good start would be someone involved in the motorsport fabrication industry, they would also have possible access to crack testing Regards Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Guys, thanks... I have to say wearing 'best glasses', looks very promising - assuming Caterham will sell me just that bit. I feel much more upbeat now.As one of the reasons for buying the car was for my son & I to tour Europe, I'm glad not only that I was going so slowly when it broke, but also that I was an hour's free recovery from home, rather than blatting up an alpine pass, when it let go!I'll get in the garage in a bit and have a proper look with the wheel off and come back with more photos. JB, we'll probably have to wait a bit now to meet up in middle ground (& you might be doing the BTB exhaust measuring up)! I'll not take you up on your offer for assistance today as Mrs Goose has me going to Solihull for curtains and I've also a blown up PC to deal with today too! I will however get your support for when it comes to removing that bloody great big rear hub nut, assuming that's required at some point in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted July 11, 2020 Leadership Team Share Posted July 11, 2020 No worries Mark. I sent my phone number by Blatmail. If Ian (Wrightpayne) is right - and I think he may well be - then it shouldn't be hard to replace or even repair that piece and there would be no need to remove and strip the hub carrier as this part (I think) just bolts on.Call me when you need a hand.Meantime, this is kinda cute: CSR rear suspension James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Just be cautious with steel bolts into aluminium - bit of plus gas / penetrating fluid.RegardsIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Thanks James. Funnily enough, saw that 3D model last night, it was that with the photos I'd taken led me to the rear upright being the mounting (failure) point for the shock/spring. I'll txt you shortly, so that we've got comms established... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted July 11, 2020 Leadership Team Share Posted July 11, 2020 James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Mostly positive experience! Ian, you're correct - I just need that bit (probably x2, might as well do the other side at the same time)All came apart, except for two 5mm allen bolts, which feel like they're going to break the allen key before they come out. I've soaked them in penetrating oil and I'm going to get a high strength 5mm key for my impact driver, to see if that will shift them. I suspect a combination of thread lock and water running down the threads for 15 years has rendered them pretty tight.Any other thoughts about how to get them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 The whole CSR rear assembly is bolted together from multiple pieces (=/- chimmes to control the rear camber). if the car uses LSD and is used well, the bolts tend to go undone. The fatigue might be the result of an excessive movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Bolts removal - a bit oh heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 I think you're right Igor... I'll wait another 24 hours for penetrating oil to soak in - I'm in no rush, as I won't be able to get the parts until next week anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Penetrating fluid, heat and a few good taps of the hammer. This is a constant challenge for me on the 911. Also trying to tightening might crack it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 The whole thing is made by Titan Motorsport. Might be worth giving them a ring. http://www.sjmmarsh.com/7files/rear%20upright%20diagram.jpghttps://titan.uk.net/markets/motorsport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 Igor - really helpful, thanks. I did email Chris @ Redline to see if he could source it, but this is excellent additional information. The diagram is also very useful, although it's not apparent what holds bits 2 & 3 together - in all the pictures they come as one item, so perhaps it's just an interference fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I think it might be screwed on as there is an engage at the base for the wrench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 Of course, that makes complete sense ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Be careful in using heat on the upright, some aluminium alloys start to anneal at 340C, 6061 T6 will change mechanical properties when heated above 200C for any length of time (it is initially aged to T6 temper by heating at 205C for one hour) and will be annealed if heated to 400C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 5mm impact driver allen bit arrived this morning and one bolt came straight out. The other needed a quick tighten and then also came out. Didn't need heat, which was good.Not sure if I can now get these two bits apart though ... Its a much bigger thread to be stuck together!Looking at where it's cracked through, it's now apparent that one side had cracked through some time ago, as there's corrosion in the crack, so it's been surviving on just one side for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Good work.I'd send a picture to Caterham after sales and see what they have to say - could have been a fault in the metal or it could be a design issue? That said they didn't take any notice of the dedion tube failures (of which there were many) or acknowledge there was a problem other than change the design of the tube (increase wall thickness and extra butress). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkTheGoose Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 I'm not a structural engineer, but the fact that the entire weight of the back end of the car, along with all the loads that it is subjected to with bumpy B roads, is supported by 2 pieces of metal 14mm x 4mm thick on each back corner, doesn't seem like it's massively over-engineered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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