Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 30, 2020 Member Share Posted January 30, 2020 Does K mean K series engine?Yes.... a 2001 build manual could be handy...That's in the set. :-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The black wires are as you have stated. The Blue/Green isn't connected to the alternator, but has the wire that isn't connected! IG = White S or D = Brown/Yellow Blue/Green = not connectedBlue/green not connected - does the water temp gauge function?It seems you're confirming that the 'brown/yellow' black wire has been put onto the 'S' or 'D' terminal? If so it should be moved to the 'L' terminal.However, that would leave an empty terminal, which may or may not be a battery voltage sense connection.If there is no way of identifying the model of alternator to determine its function I think it would be advisable to connect this to the battery +ve terminal.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBO Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 Thank you for the advice...will report back when I've had a look!Water temp does work. Water and Oil pressure/temp gauges were fitted more recently.The only other thing that doesn't work is the immobiliser light, but I'm not convinced it has an immobiliser!Cheers chaps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I'm getting a tad confused. Perhaps we could have a little recap?Assuming that the OP has the Nippon Denso alt shown in #34, there's some terminal/wiring info here. Although this shows a slightly different cover design, it has the same (typically Denso?) circular 3-terminal socket: So, this would be a Type 3 on the Brise chart (#33):This is the OP's wiring (#18): So, EITHER:From bjw's comment in #52, the wire connected to "S" is wrong and should be moved to "L". The alt will then be running without a voltage sense wire. To fix that, run a wire from "S" to the battery +ve terminal (as bjw suggests in #52).OR:The OP's "S" wire is indeed a sense wire, and what is missing is a warning-light wire from "L".Have I got that straight?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 #46 (bjw): If the black wire from white goes to 'IG' as in the Brise diagram (types 2 and 3), and the one from brown/yellow goes to the middle terminal 'S' (type 2) or 'D' (type 3) then it seems the 'brown/yellow' black wire is fitted incorrectly.(We know the warning lamp is on brown/yellow.)#49 (AMBO): The black wires are as you have stated.#52(bjw): It seems you're confirming that the 'brown/yellow' black wire has been put onto the 'S' or 'D' terminal? If so it should be moved to the 'L' terminal.As it appears the alternator is indeed of the type which does use the 'middle' terminal for sensing, it's uncertain what happens if it is left unconnected with the warning lamp connected to 'L'. Perhaps this was done originally and the regulated output was too high or too low. Moving the ignition lamp wire onto the sense terminal 'temporarily' might have provided a better result and was left in place. Who knows what went on...?It might be worth simply moving the warning wire to 'L', running the engine and seeing what voltage the alternator puts out. If it's o.k. then the sense wire might not actually be necessary, but...Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBO Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Thank you again chaps!I have another issue to deal with now, but will come back to this and let you know...I really appreciate the time and effort you are going into to help me...and I'm learning here PS, where should I find the connector as mentioned earlier...It would be worth locating the 14 pin plug/socket that connects to the main vehicle loom. It may be the case that the brown/yellow doesn't make it to the other side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 PS, where should I find the connector as mentioned earlier...From your post #45 I took it that you were referring to that 14 way connector pair, and it was fitted with 9 wires on the main loom side and 7 wires on the engine loom side ?(The term '14 way connector' refers to the housing, no matter how many ways are actually populated.)Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 OR:The OP's "S" wire is indeed a sense wire, and what is missing is a warning-light wire from "L".As the OP reports that the brown/yellow into the 14-way emerges as black to the "S" terminal, I think my alternative scenario above is probably nonsense! Presumably (if added) a voltage sense wire from "S" ought to go to a fused permanent 12v supply, as close to the battery +ve as possible, rather than direct to the battery +ve?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Presumably (if added) a voltage sense wire from "S" ought to go to a fused permanent 12v supply, as close to the battery +ve as possible, rather than direct to the battery +ve?Not necessarily fused (- note that the adjacent 'IG' terminal feed is unfused), but if the car is fitted with a battery master switch the sense wire should clearly be downstream of that and not directly to battery +veCheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 ...but if the car is fitted with a battery master switch the sense wire should clearly be downstream of that and not directly to battery +veGood point. Such as the big fat terminal on the starter, perhaps? I imagine that you'd want to minimise the scope (I was going to say "potential" but thought better of it) for voltage drop between the battery and the the point where the sense wire is connected? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Such as the big fat terminal on the starter, perhaps?Seems reasonable. I suppose in theory the best place would be at the master switch, but in reality there shouldn't be a significant drop from the master switch to that point, and it would likely be much easier to wire it to to the starter..Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBO Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Think was i was just seeking clarity that I was looking at the right connector! The grey has the 14 holes for wires and 9 on the loom side with 7 on the engine side, so now I'm confident that I was refering to the correct plug and understand the terminology...thanks you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBO Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Perhaps I'll try a wire from the big fat starter terminal as described...I've now bought some small crocodile clips to make some test leads and will report back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Re #63:Do you plan to move your existing "S" wire (see pic in #54) to "L" and then run a wire from "S" to the fat starter terminal?If so, the warning light should come on when you turn the ignition on, and go out when the engine is running (at, say, 1000-1200 rpm). And with the engine running (and alt charging), you should have about 14.5v across the battery.It's not clear to me where your alt gets its excitation current from at the moment. I'm not familiar with your tacho, but I take it the warning light is an LED? If so, I imagine that either (a) there's additional circuitry to ensure an adequate excitation current in the warning-light wiring (to match an incandescent bulb), or (b) the excitation current originates elsewhere.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 2, 2020 Member Share Posted February 2, 2020 Have you been all over the alternator looking for some identification?I've now bought some small crocodile clips to make some test leads and will report back...That's test for the multimeter rather than the high current connections?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 That's test for the multimeter rather than the high current connections?Probably for the sense wire.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 It's not clear to me where your alt gets its excitation current from at the moment.That's the function of the 'IG' connection.Again, it's probably worth moving the warning lamp connection from 'S' to 'L' and then doing a test run before connecting the sense, just to get a bit more information.Careful - croc clips and a vibrating/shaking engine isn't an ideal combination...especially if it's the alternator end of the sense lead that comes off!Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 That's the function of the 'IG' connection.Ah, OK. I'd assumed that was just to put the voltage regulator under switched control. But don't some alts rely on the warning-light circuit for excitation?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 2, 2020 Member Share Posted February 2, 2020 But don't some alts rely on the warning-light circuit for excitation?Yes. And agree with your previous comment on LEDs.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 But don't some alts rely on the warning-light circuit for excitation?Yes , but in this case AMBO confirmed it has been charging o.k. with no warning lamp connection.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Yes , but in this case AMBO confirmed it has been charging o.k...He did indeed....with no warning lamp connection.Well, strictly speaking, I suppose it was connected, but to "S" rather than "L". Presumably the field coils would be unable to pick up an excitation current via "S"?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Presumably the field coils would be unable to pick up an excitation current via "S"?I doubt it would be designed that way - the sense isn't switched so would pull current even with ignition off.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 ... the sense isn't switched so would pull current even with ignition off.Yes, of course. I should have thought of that. Excitation needs to be via a switched source as otherwise there'll be a significant and permanent battery drain.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBO Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 As promised, an update...I've moved the Brown/Yellow from S or D (depending on which of the Brise diagrams we go from) to L and the red (LED) ignition light comes on...fantastic chaps I can't unfortunately go any further yet, because my ECU maybe faulty...the engine will not start! But once that is sorted I can check for volts as suggested with ignition off, on and engine running. Then I can report back and take your advice on whether to connect a wire from S/D to erm, somewhere!Regarding the 3rd Black wire that I found disconnected, but is connected to Blue/Green on the 14 pin plug....I think someone suggested that it could be to do with the water temp gauge. Gauge works, but the wire was by the 'H20' connection, so I wonder if the was originally connected to a different CTS or that when the engine was removed much more recently, someone just got confused or couldn't be bothered to work out, what you chaps have helped me work out...Thanks again chaps!NickOh and comments noted about use of crocodile clips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 the engine will not start!I hope it's not anything to do with the alternator wiring!Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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