7 wonders of the world Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 http://www.ilmor.co.uk/capabilities/5-stroke-engineUntill the goverment has another knee jerk reaction and moves the focus onto a different emission.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 31, 2019 Member Share Posted December 31, 2019 BC discussion from 2015 with some performance data... have they made any progress?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 If it would make it into a transport of some sort i see it more as a engine that generates electricity. Lets say in an electric semi to charge the battery's on longer runs to remote areas therefore this engine can always run in his optimum window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 31, 2019 Member Share Posted December 31, 2019 Yes, there's an enormous difference between ICEs that are inflexibly connected to the road surface and those that can run at some sort of other optimum. I expected that to leave a big niche for range-extenders but that's rapidly shrinking because of the progress on battery-only vehicles.The last time I looked Ilmor were thinking of this in a bike...Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 1, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 1, 2020 Mazda seemed to have found a solution with Spark Controlled Compression Ignition.https://www.mazda.co.uk/why-mazda/skyactiv-x/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 The 4 stroke petrol piston engine has his limitations regarding materials used and unless the came up with materials that can withstand higher temperatures it will never be an effective engine, Maybe the best effort in a production car is the Honda Civic CCVC and that dates back to the 70's and might be the best lean burn production piston engine. Car manufactors has successfully reduced emissions but fuel consumption it did not achieve, a diesel Citroen C 15 does 5ltr/100km and it, more than 20 years old, agreed it offers low crash protection and therefore is light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 3, 2020 Member Share Posted January 3, 2020 The 4 stroke petrol piston engine has his limitations regarding materials used and unless the came up with materials that can withstand higher temperatures it will never be an effective engine...I'm expecting further improvements such as Mazda's, and some of them may be made in large numbers. But it feels very much like the final throes of high-powered piston engines in aircraft... tweak after tweak after tweak while the future lay with gas turbines. But in this case electric motors.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 3, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 3, 2020 JK - ah but aircraft have been flying around with diesels fitted for some time. Great economy with lots of power & torque.One of the limiting factor with ICE engined aircraft is prop tip speed going sonic. Another is output against weight & efficiency. The heavily modified single engined racers rely heavily on aero to get to the speeds they do as again prop blade length & rpm are limiting factors.This is even the case with gas turbine propellor aircraft. Hence the multi blade scimitar designs now seen on a lot of multi engined types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted January 3, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 3, 2020 Hence the multi blade scimitar designs now seen on a lot of multi engined types. Geoff, yes, I was reading about those, in addressing the impact of prop tip speed going supersonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Arundel Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Isn`t that what we used to do with steam engines about 100 years ago.....They`ll be injecting water into the cylinders soon no doubt......Ah what goes around comes around ! Happy new year etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 4, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 4, 2020 Some gas turbines have or had water/meth injection systems. Notably the Pegasus in the Harrier was one so the aircraft could commit to stable VTOL when the OAT was outside the normal parameters for safe operation or the weapon load dictated. Also used to augment STOL when at maximum AUW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Water injection was used on some Sierra Cosworth rally cars in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 This is the same principle used in compound steam engines where remaining pressure in the exhaust from the first cylinder is used to drive another cylinder. In fundamental principle, it is similar to the Atkinson cycle engine used in the Toyota Prius, although that engine achieves the effect in a completely different way through trick valve timing which allows the engine to breathe as if it were a 1300ccm unit, but then expand the combustion stroke to the size of a 1500ccm unit. Note that I'm not sure of the exact capacities here so the figures quoted are nominal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 ... but aircraft have been flying around with diesels fitted for some time.That's why I said: "... much like the final throes of high-powered piston engines in aircraft". At lower powers there's lots of clever options. One of the limiting factor with ICE engined aircraft is prop tip speed going sonic.The concept of reduction gearing was known to the Wright brothers. And Rolls-Royce had it working very well in the Eagle in 1915. After that it got caught up in one of the most interesting technology battles of all time: radial vs inline, water + air vs air cooling, ± reduction gearing, and the different national decisions made and why.And it relates directly to some of those clever options at the low end, including the extraordinary performance of the Porsche 911 engine compared to those with an aircraft heritage, but it needed a lot of reduction gearing, and the only Lotus aircraft engine, which avoided that by driving the airscrew off the camshaft.http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft/thumbs/lotusengine01.jpgJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 5, 2020 Member Share Posted January 5, 2020 Some gas turbines have or had water/meth injection systems. Notably the Pegasus in the Harrier was one so the aircraft could commit to stable VTOL when the OAT was outside the normal parameters for safe operation or the weapon load dictated. Also used to augment STOL when at maximum AUW.And early 707s, 747s and many others. IIRC in Airport Hailey said of a 747 that at take-off there was more thrust from the steam power than the "ordinary" turbine.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 5, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 5, 2020 Mr Pratt & Whitney with the throttles through the fire wall! And burning JP4 or some wide cut fuel of the day that the US military loved to burn. The equivalent of red diesel in automotive terms.That was the problem with early gas turbines using full military power with any 'additive' to get off the deck - the alpha schedule range (throttle/fuel/aneroid management) at low level was not as sophisticated as it is today so the philosophy was on throttle demand just chuck as much fuel into the fire as possible. Rather like a Crossflow Seven?Ah...memories of low level in Albert after taking on wide cut fuel - the exhaust trail went for miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 6, 2020 Member Share Posted January 6, 2020 According to Wikipedia that's a KC-135 with J57s using water injection at take off.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 7, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 7, 2020 Jk - Yes it may be using H2O injection but the majority of the dirty efflux is due to the fact that in days of yore the yanks used to burn wide cut (poor blend) fuels such as JP4, F40, F44, AVCAT & AVTAG. Related in an early post.Jet A was reasonably civilised until Jet A1 took over. The American military were very slow to accept JP8 - NATO F34 (militarised Jet A1) which the UK & other euro countries had been using since Pontius was a pilot. Regrettably when the yanks did it caused all sorts of fuel system problems after running on wide cut fuels.Even in the late 1980s refueling at American bases could be Hobsons choice especially the navy ones where wide cut fuels were the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted January 7, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 7, 2020 since Pontius was a pilotNice turn of phrase Geoff! May I use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 8, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 8, 2020 GJT - Turn of phrase used in the RAF to describe any one or any thing that may appear to be really old or related to the distant mists of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 ...any thing that may appear to be really old or related to the distant mists of time.Bit like a 7 really. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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