CtrMint Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Hi All,Me again, another build issue, have to say my patience is running thin at the moment. If you recall my woes in an earlier thread over the radiator bobbins and the R300 race style radiator/oil cooler supplied with my 420R, https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/silly-confusion-over-rad-installWell I've managed to get to fitting the oil lines and hit more issues.As far as I can tell I've been supplied oil lines which would be designed to fit a car with the separate oil cooler, where inlet faces vertically downwards. My cooler inlet face horizontally towards the engine, however the cooler lines are expecting a vertical union. As a result I have force the line through 90 degrees which requires tremendous force on the thick lines. If I do this the line collapses near the cooler, not good. I'm sure the hose joint won't last long either. Couldn't photograph the result.I'm no expert for sure, but surely this is wrong, and potentially dangerous if the joint fails.Could you please suggest if I'm missing something.Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 When I built my R400D (with separate oil cooler), the only way I could get the vertical 90 inlet pipe to fit was to loosen the union at the sandwich plate take-off and turn the whole pipe until it fitted the cooler inlet. Would that work for you?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Sorry John, you'll have to forgive me but I don't follow what you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 If you rotate the whole tube along it's axis by 90 degrees, then the fitting on the oil line should be facing forward as opposed to up, but I think what John is saying is that you will need to do this rotation at the engine end to achieve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Is the connection on the opposite end of the pipe which you have straight or elbow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Both are elbows. I've tried both orientations, there is just now way you can make it fit without forcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 If you rotate at the engine, the 90 there will be out, I've tried that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Ah, you have the dry sump of course. My car is wet sump, and both cooler hoses run from the sandwich plate attached to the engine, with straight connections that can be rotated.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On my 2012 R400D the front dry sump connection has a 135 degree elbow that goes to the vertical connection on the right hand side of the oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator using a 90 degree elbow. The rear dry sump connection uses a 45 degree elbow into a connection in the bottom of the oil tank. The left side of the oil cooler is also a vertical connection using a 90 degree elbow that connects to the return on the top of the oil tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Thanks aerobod, unfortunately I seem to have a horizontal connection and vertical position hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Give my regards to Derek, I guess you'll be speaking with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Blyth Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 You may have already tried this, but when we had any issues on our build, we just sent an email with photos to Derek at Caterham and his response was always helpful. Sometimes we had just got it wrong or he identified a faulty or incorrect part and sent a replacement immediately.Either way, we got the issues sorted. Can't recommend him enough! Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 I spun the hose around, and tried fitting on the cooler first. This has allowed me to fit without the hose collapsing, but I still had to force the hose at the tank clockwise by about 45 degrees. Not totally convinced.I've moved on and got the other cooler oil line on, but I'm now struggling with the tank to sump line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It is possible to rotate the fittings of crimped hoses - hold the crimp and turn the fitting. It's a mild hose tail inside and will rotate with no leak concerns - I've never had any on systems running rather higher pressures than car engines ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Could you clarify that the two images you’ve shown are of two pipes?It’s just that you referred to the oil cooler inlet as being the problem and that does look like the inlet side; but the second image is of the return from the other side of the cooler. Not sure why you showed us that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Yes the images are the pipes of concern, though I have managed to get them on now, i just think it is pretty poor to stress the hose in the manner required.To be honest I'm now trying the one which runs from the bottom of the engine to the bottom of the tank. That one is impossible.You simply cannot get the hose on straight to the joint at the bottom of the engine due to the engine mount. I'm seriously getting to the point of calling it a day with this whole idea. I should have stuck with messing around with JDM cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 My dry sump connection uses a 45 degree elbow to put the pipe to the front of the engine mount and curving up against the side skin:The connection to the side of the tank also uses a 45 degree elbow that you can just see in this photo, where the pipe curves down from the side skin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Thanks for that, That looks like what I'm trying to do. Do you have an SV or S3? Mine is an S3, and the proximity to the chassis rail seems to prevent getting the connector on straight. A few extra mill and I might be able too but not matter how I push, pull, twist I just can't get a straight fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Mine is an S3. Those AN connectors are a pain to get straight to start the thread, took me an hour to get one threaded on the oil cooler in my son's Corvette last week due to the restricted space. On my R400D, the 45 degree elbow is angled up from the horizontal at about 45 degrees to allow the pipe to clear the chassis rail and pass to the front of the engine mount. It may be easier to support the engine and remove the engine mount, giving more space to work, so you can get the thread on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Could you get a good straight on fit with the lower connector if you offer the hose to the union with the whole hose orientated rearwards? You might then be able to rotate the hose down then forward in order to thread the other end of the hose up into position before doing a full tighten up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Did you remove your mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Tried that one Jim, it hits the chassis rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 I'm second owner, so didn't do the initial build, just modifications since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 These are push fit hose unions so you can rotate the union inside the hose id you pour boiling water in the last 40mm of rubber hose and twist whilst the rubber is warm and it gives a little, this way you can orient the union to your desired position whilst respecting the natural curvature of the hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrMint Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 So I spent all day on this. This morning trying every combination to make this fit, but no joy.In the end I've spent the afternoon removing the mount, I can now get the hose on, but the rubber mount is clearly in the way and I can't refit that.I have had one response from Derek telling me to route the line between the chassis and the body work, then nothing more. I'm seriously now at the end of my tether with it..... Truly wish I'd not sunk 40K into this,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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