Type 9 vs Mazda Gearbox

[AndrewB]

I have the ford type 9 gearbox in my Caterham, Had I ordered my car  6 months later I would have had the Mazda gearbox.  Has anybody out there driven Caterhams with the same engine but both gearboxes and if so which is better?  

By better I suppose my main reason for asking is due to the overrun noise with the type 9 when lifting off in 4th.  I know I know, what a wimp, lifting of in 4th for a corner or traffic light, what was I thinking.....

I understand the mazda box is wider and so cannot easily be fitted into a type9 prepped chasis.

 

[7 wonders of the world]

Mazda box is not only larger dimensionally but also heavier too than the standard iron cased Type 9 box.

Type 9 can be made even lighter with alloy casing and lighter gear clusters and since this box has been used in motorsport for decades there's a massive range of ratio options too.

Neither boxes that CC supply are perfect for a 7 as the ratios are designed for road cars of much greater weight.

Since your running a Type 9 give Steve a call and have him transform your box, his gearkits and casings are beyond comparison to anything else out there.

 https://www.tracsport.com/

[Paul Mason]

Looking at the Tracsport website.......I wish I had a couple of grand spare!! The type 9 casings even look sexy!! Apols, totally useless statement in regards to the original question, just had to say!

[7 wonders of the world]

Paul 

and subtley different to others on the market too....... I didn't have the budget when I got the 2.29 gearkit but its on the next upgrade list!

[Grubbster]

Since your running a Type 9 give Steve a call and have him transform your box, his gearkits and casings are beyond comparison to anything else out there.

 https://www.tracsport.com/

I too can vouch for Steve's work, the 5 speed box he built for me was superb. Word of advice though, make sure you have a pee before calling him - he knows his stuff and can talk for quite a while!

[Paul Mason]

The gearbox is the only thing about my car I don't love. Its not bad so to speak, got a lovely change and feel to it, but first is a little useless often times (got a 3.92 diff and 13 inch wheels) and in comparison 2nd and 3rd seem a touch too long and 4th and 5th a little too close? Maybe something I just need to get used to? If I had the money, definitely something that would be on the upgrade list. Would ideally like a longer first, stacked 2nd, 3rd and 4th, then a longer 5th to drop into and cruise if needed.

 

And, having been under the car a bit recently......the alloy dry sump tray, alloy bellhousing, alloy diff........all seem to be spoiled by the lump of pig iron in between them........but now I'm wandering into namby pamby aesthetics and away from the original question and also the technical things

[7 wonders of the world]

Tracsport semi helical kit  

2.29 1st with a .82 5th, alloy casing spacer and topcover. Unless your regularly running over 8k rpm you wont need the needle roller mainshaft...... unless your budget allows for this lovely upgrade.

You know you want too....

The first gear in yours was perfect for a Sierra doing a hill start with a family on board and a Sprite on the towbar.... 

[Paul Mason]

Sounds perfect......and yes, want to.......but the budget currently allows for a second hand towbar from eBay to pull the Sprite with.....if I'm lucky!

[Wrightpayne]

in a k series, the 6 speed box is sublime. Its perfect for everything except touring 1:1 in 6th is a bit noisey!!

Ian

[AndrewB]

Thanks 7WotW

I do look at their kits every now and again and convince myself not to do it (yet).  The other argument of course is that the sooner I do it then more I benefit from it. 

Is the semi helical kit quieter than the standard type9 and does it deal with the overun?

 

[sjl1]

I have previously owned a k series with ford box and now have a 310r with mazda box. It does rattle in 4th but otherwise is very good with a longer 1st (3.0 to 3.6 i think?). Change is excellent and reverse is easier. Whether a 310r is best suited to a 5 or 6 speed box i dont know but can say the mazda box is a good one and an improvement over standard ford 5 speed, it has a sweeter change.

I did ask a well known caterham tranmission expert about the rattling 4th and he suggested this is more likely due to the fuelling and a ligjtweight flywheel, an unexpected but interesting answer, i suspect he is in the right track. He did also explain my titan lsd was goosed after 3000 miles! (Which it was). I have also driven another 310r with the mazda box and it had the same rattle in 4th as mine has, so not specific to my car.

[Mechanical Moz]

Is the semi helical kit quieter than the standard type9 and does it deal with the overun?

No, quite the opposite.  I love the ratios of my Tracsport box but the whine in 2nd & 3rd is pretty damn loud.  The noise on overrun in 4th is louder than before too, however I did fit a lighter flywheel at the same time as the box was done.  

 

[JNC]

Andrew I think it depends on what you have bolted to it ? I have the  2ltr  Duratec via the type 9 to an open BMW diff , I don't notice any noise from overrun or clattering and banging from the diff, People comment on the torque from the duratec can make you lazy because you just accelerate in any gear !  The only time I loose traction is in the wet or greasy roads not bad with 220bhp 

[Grubbster]

That's interesting Moz, on mine I never noticed any difference to noise in any of the gears from the standard box? I did have an LSD and the car was quite noisy though so maybe I just never noticed!

[7 wonders of the world]

Since the type 9 has been out of production for some years now all the boxes supplied with new cars are remanufactured using reclaimed gears, often not from the same original gearset so this has a impact on running clearances and tooth wear profile, which in turn affects the noise level during operation.

The semi helical kit is design to be quieter than a straight cut gearset, whilst reducing the frictional loses seen in conventional helical gears.

The overrun noise your getting could be a number of areas, final drive, laygear, etc and could be due to excessive running clearances or poor engine mapping which can setup driveline shunt on light and transitional throttle.

[Drumster]

2.0l Zetec with ZF LSD, so plenty of power and torque. Finally decided after 86k miles to treat the T9 gearbox to some new internals. Also went for the Tracsport gearset but decided on a 0.87 5th (as well as 2.29 1st) and find that 2nd, 3rd and 5th do whine more than the standard T9 gears (but don't notice much noise on over-run). However, being aero'd and always wearing earplugs the noise doesn't bother me or SWMBO. But from a driving perspective I find that for road driving I change up and down the gears far more often for the sheer pleasure as they are more closely matched and for sprinting the longer first and second make a considerable difference.

[AndrewB]

JNC I have the same set up in os much as the 2lt Duratec and BMW diff via the type 9 box.  I only have the 175 version of the Duratec.  

The light flywheel being a cause of the overrun noise makes sense as does the mapping.  I have learnt to not fully come off the throttle and slow down that way before moving from the throttle to the brake.

 

[JNC]

Andrew, do the upgrade to RBTB’s it transformed my car from a good car to a great car it’s the best thing I’ve done to mine and remap at the two Steve’s  it will take your mind off the gearbox noise 

[AndrewB]

The remap is definitely on the list of things to do.  You only ever hear good things about the two steve's.

 

[john aston]

The odd thing is why Caterham opted for the five speed Mazda box when MX5s also have a six speed . Mine has and its ratios are spot on - much better than the type 9 my 1.4/1.8VVC Seven had , and far less frenetic than the six speed the R400D had .

Mind you , there are tales of unreliability of the ND MX5 's six speed box so maybe Caterham played safe ?  

[Wrightpayne]

John,

I'm sure there was a previous discussion on the mazda 6sp and it is bigger and wouldnt fit without tunnel mods.

Ian

[DJ.]

Bet it's more expensive too!

[rj]

Plus Caterham have a well proven 6 speed box but no 5 speed.

[7 wonders of the world]

He did also explain my titan lsd was goosed after 3000 miles! (Which it was). 

Hardly surprising considering the design of this unit, 

Another one that Steve @ SP can sort, with one of his own Tracsport LDS's when you see these two units on the bench you wont believe the difference, never mind when you get it in the car !

 

[sjl1]

Fair play to Caterham, they changed the plates from carbon to sintered which restored it. I get the impression the carbon plates have been unreliable. Its now working as it should and not noisy