HANS after seat fitting

[Mucus72]

Evening all,

I had a REAL resin bag seat fitted today to get me in a much better position in my car. I'm now thinking seriously about getting a HANS restraint system fitted, but after reading other posts on here, I'm not clear.

Simon @ Meteor mentioned in old posts that he was stocking some Simpson Hybrid kit, and others have mentioned that my car would need to go to Arch for some chassis adaptation.

A lot of the posts are quite old, so I was hoping the POBC could point me in the right direction.

The other issue is that my current Bell helmet, which is about 5 years old does not have HANS posts on it.

So I want to be safe, but don't want to re-mortgage the house to do so. Please guide me if you have some knowledge.....

Thanks

Marcus

[Pendennis]

Hi, you do NOT need to return your chassis back to Arch for bush welding as you can secure a bracket to the rear bulkhead which would enable new and correct harness position for your hans. Have you obtained the relevant information regarding correct position and angles? In my experience you have to get it spot on otherwise it is uncomfortable, useless, unsafe and a complete waste of money. Took me few attempts to get harness position correct then there was the angle of harness security to ensure they pulled the hans into your shoulder. Once correct it feels correct!

Your helmet could easily have posts screwed in, also make sure when buying a hans the angle suits your seating position, plus the neck width is correct. No point compromising or cutting corners your regret it trust me

[Mucus72]

Hi Pendennis,

thanks for the info. No I haven't got any info on sizing or angles. And I didn't know that you could retro fit HANS studs on a helmet, that's great news. Is there a caterham guide for this bracket? Can you point me in the right direction. Wondering whether it would be different for a SV too? 

[Mucus72]

And were you able to use the existing harness straps too, or do you need to get narrower ones?

[Pendennis]

Let me find you the hans information complies to FIA for you. It shows dimensions and angles etc..

if your not competing in MSA you can use any harness or helmet although I would use 2" shoulder straps, I can show you picture of my bracket if you message me your email I send that over

[ECR]

This has all the info you need on drilling your own helmet for HANS posts and belt positions ...

http://hansdevice.com/Tech_files/HANS%20QSG%20AUG%202014.pdf

 

[Pendennis]

Let me find you the hans information complies to FIA for you. It shows dimensions and angles etc..

if your not competing in MSA you can use any harness or helmet although I would use 2" shoulder straps, I can show you picture of my bracket if you message me your email I send that over

[ChrisC]

Hi Marcus

On my 2016 S3 it already had the extra seat belt mounting posts,  When I asked CC they said they where for HANS.    Looking at the pictures in your blog it's difficult to tell if the SV has the same. 

Chris,

[pikeyboy]

depending on your height in the car when seated don't some people need to have the harness fixings under the chassis rail and then cut a couple of holes in the rear bulk head to pass the harness straps through.

[Pendennis]

Yes the harness must be below shoulder height as I mentioned, cutting the alloy back panel doesn't really comply with MSA as driving compartment needs to be separate thus sealed from fuel area. I spaced harness points down below top rail so below shoulder height, it's all doable just depends on your needs really

[Jonathan Kay]

5 year old helmet that needs some work? I'd consider a new one.

Jonathan

[Mucus72]

Hi Chris. What would I be looking for? I seem to remember another set of holes, now hidden under the boot cover. Is that what you mean?

[Mucus72]

Thanks ECR. That document is great, and really clear. 

[ChrisC]

Yep that's them.   It came from Derek.

Chris.

[Mucus72]

Hey Jonathan. I slept on your helmet thought (I know, that sounds a bit kinky!). I've had it for 5 years, on average had 4 outings with it on per year. On average worn it 6 hours on those days. So it's 120 hours usage aged. Is there anything in a helmet that expires over time? Obviously assuming no knocks. 

[Mucus72]

That HANS PDF also says 3" belts are fine, so seeing as it's a 2016 car with essentially new belts I'm going to try and keep them.

[Pendennis]

I use 3" shoulder straps, they are fine but 2" would sit nicer IMHO.

Helmet will be fine, just because it is old does not mean its NFG. If you have intention of competing in near future, then that is a different matter altogether. When buying hans make sure you measure your neck and decide on angle 20 or 30 degree, mine was 20

[Jonathan Kay]

Life of helmets

There's a widely held view that the energy absorbing layer under the shell deteriorates with time regardless of knocks etc. And that it can't be assessed without destruction.

Common advice is to replace every 5y or sooner, but there's a few people saying 7y.

But I don't know of any studies that give answers at a high level of evidence.

There's an obvious risk of bias from those who make make money out of selling them. 

Then there are platitudes about only being issued with one brain etc, but that doesn't add much practical advice, as opposed to anxiety.

If you have intention of competing in near future, then that is a different matter altogether.

Do you mean solely about regulations?

Jonathan

[Pendennis]

Yes regulations. Obviously material degrades after time although that is affected by temperature, moisture, UV etc.. If he has worn the helmet a handful of times I would be amazed if it NFG. FYI, I have to replace helmets due to regulation revisions, each helmet which no longer conforms is fine. The date and regulation changes is there to maintain safety yes, but it also there to generate turnover within the motorsport industry.

[Jonathan Kay]

Yes regulations.

Thanks

I have to replace helmets due to regulation revisions, each helmet which no longer conforms is fine.

How do you assess the ability to absorb energy?

Jonathan

[Pendennis]

The same way I do when I buy a new one, ha ha 

[CharlesElliott]

Is this to race under some regulations? Or just to get HANS?

- Most race series will require evidence of Arch or Westbury doing it if chassis is modified

- 3" or 2" belts are fine, but you cannot use 2" belts without a HANS

- The MSA have somewhat mixed views on brackets depending on which scrutineer speaks to which contact at the MSA.

- There are specific rules around drilling helmets for HANS, and some are never able to pass scrutineering when drilled.

There's lots more detail, but in the first instance, it depends what you are trying to use it for.

[Alan Bowler]

I'd go for a Simpson hybrid. More expensive maybe, but most reviews are favourable in terms of comfort and ease of use vs. traditional HANs, and you can use as a passenger or in another car, and no drilling/bracketry/scrutineering worries. For helmets, there are some good Helmet +HANS bundles out there.

[Mucus72]

I'm not competing in anything. I do drive to my abilities, which means these days I'm pretty quick and at the cars limits most of the time on track.  And as a middle aged man with a slightly dodgy neck and general H&S anxiety, I'd rather be safe than sorry. 

[Mucus72]

Checked my helmet this morning, and it's a Bell Pro RS3 that is predrilled with some white blanking plugs inserted in the threaded holes. So it's a simple conversion and the HANS posts are already on their way to me via demontweeks. I'm taking Alan's advice above and will invest in a Simpson Hybrid to avoid having to mess around with seatbelt anchoring points, and to make for easy transition into other track cars. 

Thanks, as always, for the advice, you all guided me in the right direction!!