richd13 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 As some of you may know, Derek is away on holiday (disaster!!). I have a few questions that are stopping me getting any further, and would be grateful if anyone can shed light on them. Firstly, do the rear dampers need spring washers for the lower bolts? They're mentioned in the text but not included in the suspension fastener pack. Which of the two holes in the side panel are to be used for the front radius arm mounting? Does the rear mounting of the radius arm require any washers? Also, the left hand rear mount of the a-frame seems to have been welded on slightly wonky, such that I can't get a socket onto the nut. Is this something I could try and twist to re-align, or might I require a new a-frame? If you find time to answer any of the above that would be great! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 14, 2016 Member Share Posted June 14, 2016 Which of the two holes in the side panel are to be used for the front radius arm mounting?There used to be a note on that in the Guide. It depends: Watts linkage? Road or track use or both?Also, the left hand rear mount of the a-frame seems to have been welded on slightly wonky, such that I can't get a socket onto the nut. Is this something I could try and twist to re-align, or might I require a new a-frame?Can you add a photo of it on a flat surface?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I found similar confusion and was advised to do the following:The lower damper fixings should use the schorr washers from your pack under the head, and with chamfered washers on either side of the bushes. The chamfered washers should be in your pack or left over from the front suspension.For road use the lower radius arm fixings on the chassis are the convention.No washers to the best of my recollection on rear radius arms, but I'll check tomorrow and let you know if this is not the case.Re the A Frame, from memory I had to hunt about to get a socket to fit the aperture, and it has to be quite deep so as not to get fouled as the bolt head draws through. If this is not successful maybe try passing the bolt through from the opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richd13 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Thanks for the advice guys, as it happens Derek has replied to my email even while on holiday, so most of the washer related questions are solved now. It's not a watts link setup and will be mostly for the road so it sounds like the lower mount is the one to go for.With regards to the A frame, my sockets do fit but the bolt threads appear to be off-centre so I can't get the socket over that side. Swapping the bolt over to have the nut at the other side may well work though, I'll give it a try tomorrow! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Richard, for the purpose of others soon to be doing the same rear suspension assembly as you (me for one!), could you type up what is where re washers? Is Jim spot on, what did Derek say etc...? Thanks in advance,marcus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russjones Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 On the a frame believe it or not it is handed - it is not an IVA failure but make sure it is not upside down - like it was when I fitted it! A careful review of the manual photograph is needed.On the nut access - I used a suitably strong large flat bladed screw driver which fitted against the flat of the nut and trapped itself against the inner wall of the housing.That stopped the nut turning as I torqued it. It sounds horrendous but ask any 'field' engineer fixing stuff in the wild and its an acceptable way of stopping the nut moving.It doesn't scratch anything and allows you to tighten things nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russjones Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 On the a frame believe it or not it is handed - it is not an IVA failure but make sure it is not upside down - like it was when I fitted it! A careful review of the manual photograph is needed.On the nut access - I used a suitably strong large flat bladed screw driver which fitted against the flat of the nut and trapped itself against the inner wall of the housing.That stopped the nut turning as I torqued it. It sounds horrendous but ask any 'field' engineer fixing stuff in the wild and its an acceptable way of stopping the nut moving.It doesn't scratch anything and allows you to tighten things nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggies Dad Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm at the same stage with my 420R and my problem is the lower radius arm hole is not matched by a large clearance hole on the internal skin panel through which to insert the bolt, I can create a hole no probs but I'm intrigued if anyone else is missing the required hole? It's the the same both sides. The upper holes do align with clearance holes in the inner skin so I have queried Derek and Mark Rider but no answer so far.By the way, how do you add a photo to the text to a post? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 15, 2016 Member Share Posted June 15, 2016 By the way, how do you add a photo to the text to a post?Forum User Guide: you can either upload to this server or link to an external server.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richd13 Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 The rear dampers used schnoor washers on the lower bushes, along with the chamfered washers.The standard mounting for the radius arm is the lower hole - I had no issues getting the bolt through the hole in the interior side panel.The rear of the radius arm uses chamfered washers on both the bolt and nut sides.With the a-frame, only one of the sides was wonky so reversing the bolt to have the head at the winky side meant I could get sockets on both sides, great tip Jim123! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggies Dad Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thanks Jonathan for the link and thanks Richd13 for the washer info. My inner skins must be an anomaly but sorted now following drill, burr and Dremel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I Thought it may be helpful to mention that, when you do the final tighten up on thr rear end, the Radius Arm to De Dion torque is not mentioned in the manual, and is 81Nm, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 ...and is 81NmThat's pretty tight -- are you sure? I would have thought more like 34Nm (but I stand to be corrected).JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Yes, I used 34Nm on my metric car for the radius arm to de Dion, the A frame is 81, but the manual used to say 34 for for the radius arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted June 18, 2016 Member Share Posted June 18, 2016 34Nm in Shaun's Bolt List and the 2016 Assembly Guide.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I asked Caterham if I should torque the rear radius arms to 34Nm as there is no torque specified in the manual. I was told that the spec is 81Nm for the radius arm into the De Dion. I'll check this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 To avoid any potential miscommunication, I asked the question again and the 81Nm figure has been reconfirmed for the rear fixings of radius arms to De Dion. The fronts are a lower torque setting. Unfortunately I don't have an explanation for the differences front to rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Thanks for the confirmation. Clearly a case for CC to update the Assembly Guide, especially as it says (ambiguously) "radius arms - 34Nm". For info, the Watts bellcrank to De Dion mount is 34Nm, but that is for an M10 bolt with special spacers.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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