front caliper torx/star bolt

[griffchris]

So, an update:  The Torx Plus sockets arrived, they do seem a better fit than the standard Torx - I was able to get one of the remaining 2 bolts out of the caliper using the EP12 socket, unfortunately the last bolt head was too far gone to get purchase and I ended up having to drill it out etc - lesson learnt! I replaced the Torx bolts with cap heads as above, I had no luck in locating the external Torx heads even if I had wanted to replace like with like, Caterham parts have not been able to come up with them either.

As an aside, the reason I wanted to take the calipers off in the 1st place was so I could thoroughly check the front wheel bearings, having read previous posts about a lack of grease applied at the factory - sure enough there was very little grease evident, so I packed them as best I could!  I've only covered a couple of hundred miles so far so not too much harm done I hope...

[DJ.]

Well done for doing the bearings, I heard too late and had to replace mine after only 2 years. The Muppet who assembled mine damaged the inner seals both sides as well as being miserly with the grease.

[ScottR400D]

Do you mind saying where you got the sockets from?

 

 

[griffchris]

From Amazon, here

[ChrisC]

Err - not exactly.   I ordered a EP12 socket, and still destroyed the bolts. 

Cap heads ordered. 

[craigyb]

I will also need to remove the calipers as the wing stay prevent the pins that hold the pads from being removed.

Just want to be sure that the socket set mentioned from Amazon is definitively the right one?

 

Also anyone know what torque to reset the bolts to?

[craigyb]

I will also need to remove the calipers as the wing stay prevent the pins that hold the pads from being removed.

Just want to be sure that the socket set mentioned from Amazon is definitively the right one?

 

Also anyone know what torque to reset the bolts to?

[ChrisC]

I purchased this socket

https://store.snapon.com/TORX-Plus-174-with-Countersink-Socket-TORX-Plus-External-12EP-P768746.aspx

It removed them, but damaged the bolts in the process, so they can't be reused. 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

If I read the thread correctly we're still not sure what the original bolts were. Do you have any of them removed and undamaged to help resolve that?

Jonathan

[griffchris]

I tried E12 & EP12 and neither was a great fit, though EP12 was the better of the two - just take it slow and ensure the socket is fully engaged before applying any torque, and hopefully you will avoid having to drill 1 or more out like I had to..  Caterham told me it was E12 but I think not.  Swapped to capheads now - due to the new caliper design these have to come out to to change the pads, as CraigyB says. 

[craigyb]

To be honest I'd rather stick with the exact bolts, as I wouldn't be comfortable changing what was intended. Some serious force going through there, and though unlikely, the consequences of failure don't bear thinking about.

Be good to get  a definitive answer, also to what torque is needed.

[Jonathan Kay]

Anyone asked the factory yet?

Jonathan

[craigyb]

Not I, but could be a next step. Will be helping Mucus72 build his 420R again at weekend, so will also get a chance to take a look in more detail.

[Mark w]

Did anyone manage to find a socket that is a good fit to remove these bolts without damaging them ?

 

[ScottR400D]

Just to resurrect this thread, I stripped my car down today, or tried to, and came across the same problems.

Started on the offside first. You have to be very careful; the heads don't fit any socket well, and I have both types. Torx + is nearest but still a little loose. Another issue is that the bolts are retained by God knows what sort of loctite material but it's way over the top. Until the last few threads it takes a torque of around 60Nm to unscrew them

The wheel bearings look like they have only been shown the grease tub, very little in evidence.

So, got the offside done OK but replaced the bolts with 12.9 cap heads. We're only talking 40 or so Nm to tighten so they are fine. The original bolts are of very poor quality, you can quite easily file or drill them. Poor show Caterham. They're stamped 10.9 but I doubt they actually are. 

On to the near side and I too have rounded a bolt off, even though I was being as careful as I could. Bit stuck  now. Have drilled a hole in it but it's a little off centre so it looks like I'll need to weld the socket on and remove that way.

I would repeat the warning about grease. I'm not at all surprised people are seeing premature wear.

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks for the update.

You have to be very careful; the heads don't fit any socket well, and I have both types. Torx + is nearest but still a little loose.

The original bolts are of very poor quality, you can quite easily file or drill them. Poor show Caterham. They're stamped 10.9 but I doubt they actually are. 

Do you fancy asking the factory about the correct tool? Or asking the official Club liaison to do that?

Jonathan

[ScottR400D]

I don't mind asking the factory but reading the above Griffchris has already done so and they said they didn't know but then that it was E12 which doesn't fit as well as EP12 in Griffchris' or my experience.

 

[ScottR400D]

Having done a bit of research I believe the bolts are made by a very reputable American firm, though I could be wrong. 

I'm tending towards us not using the correct socket though if it's not Torx E or EP I have no idea what it is. 

Still not impressed by how they've been fitted. They were very difficult to unscrew, especially given that they're a fastener that needs to be removed on occasion to change pads. Even the three bolts that came out show significant wear on the head with one removal. Not sure what thread locker was used but I wonder how the threads in the upright would stand up to regular removal in that state.

Anyway,  I've replaced with a good quality 12.9 cap head, loctited in with 243. What has anyone else used on calliper bolts?

 

[ChrisC]

Yep, that's what I intend to use, but I had to clean the threads with a tap first to remove all the original thread lock.

[ScottR400D]

I had to clean the threads out with a tap, too. 

[Jonathan Kay]

I don't mind asking the factory but reading the above Griffchris has already done so and they said they didn't know but then that it was E12 which doesn't fit as well as EP12 in Griffchris' or my experience.

Doh!

Sorry

Jonathan

[ScottR400D]

Not at all Jonathan, you had me thinking for a minute whether I'd dreamt that and your post made me rethink what had happened and research the fasteners a bit. I'm quite happy with what I'm doing now though annoyed that it causing so much difficulty. 

I would strongly advise anyone with a newish car with pre assembled uprights/brakes to have a look at this soon, rather than when they may have to. 

[ScottR400D]

Well, after L7C member and poster on here, CR500dom, did me a big favour by coming over with his welder and getting my errant calliper bolt out by welding a nut to it, I finally got to check the near side bearing. 

It was fine, plenty of grease in evidence which just reinforces the idea that some of them don't! It had much more than the other side.

So, all back together with new bolts in the calipers and the bearings greased up.

 

[Mark w]

I need to change my front pads soon . In anticipation of a problem i am going to buy some cap head bolts. .

Can someone who has done this tell me how long  the existing bolts are from the end to the underside of the head and also if they are threaded for their full length or have a plain unthreaded section adjacent to the head ?

PS a reputable supplier would be good .

[ScottR400D]

For the 4 pot calipers with the torx bolts the bolts are M10 x 1.5, 70mm long with a plain section 35mm.

75mm overall will fit and the plain could be up to 45mm, if you can't get exact. 

I got VFS 12.9 grade. I think they're an American make but there should be many good brands.