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Magneti Marelli lithium battery - taking the plunge

griffchris

By griffchris
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griffchris

griffchris

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I've read all the old forum posts I can find, and have more or less decided to go ahead with a purchase of : 

ww.ebay.co.uk/itm/BATTERY-LITHIUM-MARELLI-53034-CATERHAM-SUPER-SEVEN-1-6-1590-4C-CONVERTIBLE-/191469157564

I plan to keep it on constant top-up with a dedicated lithium charger such as:

http://www.ctek.com/gb/en/chargers/LITHIUM%20XS

Before I take the plunge, has anyone else got any particular experience of the Magnetti Marelli battery in particular, any horror stories (or good experiences)?  

I have opted for the MM because, whilst it isn't the lightest, it appears to have (relatively) good capacity and cranking current, is marketed (on ebay, I know) specifically for Caterhams, and is similar in size to the Banner so shouldn't require to much packing out to secure under the existing battery retaining strap.  The battery and charger together are not cheap, but still provide good value in the £/Kg metric - "added lightness" and all that...

I have a 420R duratec, which I hope will get quite a bit of track action, but will sadly get little if any cold weather usage.

Thanks

Chris

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OliverSedlacek

OliverSedlacek

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The specs look pretty good, and even if it needs replacing yearly a Lithium battery is by miles the best weight saving per mile. It may not look as sexy as carbon, but it really makes sense financially. I doubt Magnetti Marelli make the cells, or even the complete battery so I would expect the quality to be the same as the competition.

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The_ASH

The_ASH

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I'm tempted by the Marelli battery as well, when I did some digging for info regarding it previously I found there was an OEM charger available more reasonably, also though it seems there are now many other lithium chargers including an Optimate and the CTEK as mentioned but surely pretty much a charger is a charger?

The MM blurb regarding battery and charger is here http://www.samautoitalia.com/uploads/magneti.pdf

The equivalent to the Banner in size is the MM-ION-15. The Banner sized battery is referred to as a 53034 in battery manufacturers circles although don't assume they are all a standard size they all vary in one or more dimensions.

I believe there are some owners who have already fitted them so hopefully they'll be along to post their experiences soon.

edit: Reading other forums one tip regarding lithium batteries seems to be that if the battery is cold the output drops off so put the lights on to wake and warm the cells before turning the lights off and starting.

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Jonathan Kay

Jonathan Kay

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... but surely pretty much a charger is a charger?

It's a novel use in a niche market  so you'd expect some... overcharging. But I recently bought a CTEK MSX 5.0 for about £58. That's rated at 5A for 110Ah batteries. The Lithium XS costs £100 for 5A and 120Ah. I'd take a lot of convincing that the difference is more than the programs.

So within this category: Yes.

Jonathan

 

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Simon.Rogers

Simon.Rogers

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Well for various reasons and after much experience selling some of the first LiPO4 batteries here in the UK and not having a reasonable economics - performance - weight combined ratio (for my use) I have just made the change to a Varley Lithium.

I will be selling these soon and will be able to offer all the advice needed.  The £199.00 Varley easily starts my high compression Busa when in the past other makes did not even after ramping up the CCA relative to your usual battery.

I saved 6kg over my PC680 or Red Top 25 equivalent.

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The_ASH

The_ASH

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I think once you get into the more decent charger maintainers available it is very much as you have pointed out just the program for achieving charge and maintenance that varies.

I was hoping someone on the web had stripped one of the Marelli units to reveal the contents but alas no. If it was just a bunch of 18650 cells in a plastic housing I'd make my own but I believe it's not quite that simple.

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Jonathan Kay

Jonathan Kay

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I will be selling these soon and will be able to offer all the advice needed.  The £199.00 Varley easily starts my high compression Busa when in the past other makes did not even after ramping up the CCA relative to your usual battery. 

Good luck, Simon: I think that many (by our standards) owners are close to taking the plunge.

Are you thinking about appropriate chargers and suitable lightweight cages?

Jonathan

PS: I always get nostalgic when I hear about Varley. When electronic flash started to become feasible and affordable (around 1973 for me) their batteries were way ahead of anything else.

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griffchris

griffchris

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It's a novel use in a niche market  so you'd expect some... overcharging. But I recently bought a CTEK MSX 5.0 for about £58. That's rated at 5A for 110Ah batteries. The Lithium XS costs £100 for 5A and 120Ah. I'd take a lot of convincing that the difference is more than the programs. 

Yes I've got a CTEK MXS 5.0 too, as you say the problem I believe is the software, it has an automatic desulphation step which kills lithium batteries.  All the lithium specific chargers seem to be around the £80 to £100 mark, I've been very impressed with my 5.0 and already have the 12v socket connector etc so will likely stick with CTEK.

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Simon.Rogers

Simon.Rogers

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So you do not need a LiPO4 specific charger.  The main issue is that you can not/should not overcharge them and thats why you need a charger with a brain.

However I am not a fan of just maintaining a battery for the sake of it. A battery has an approximate number of cycles and all a charger is doing is wasting them.  I LiPO4 battery looses no charge when disconnected.  So just disconnect it!

If you must have a charger then Varley have a specific one available.

Details to follow.

The battery is approc 4" CUBED! and 1.1kg.

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OliverSedlacek

OliverSedlacek

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A couple of points about charging Lithium batteries. Firstly, the full charge voltage on four lithium cells would be over 16V, so a lead acid charger should not overcharge them (and neither should your alternator). Secondly de-sulphation modes will damage a Lithium cell, so that's what you need to avoid.

The self discharge rate of lithium cells is pretty low, but as the Ah capacities are often much smaller than lead acid batteries, you need to keep an eye on the immobiliser drain. A cutoff switch is probably a better investment than a battery conditioner.

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cskip

cskip

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I have been running this MM battery for about a year so far on my Vauxhall powered 7.  I also have the CTEK charger.  The battery has been great, it cranks really well.  I have had to use the charger a few times (alternator stopped charging and once over the winter) and it is a pleasure to use.  So much better that the cheaper chargers I have used in the past.

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griffchris

griffchris

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I have been running this MM battery for about a year so far on my Vauxhall powered 7.  I also have the CTEK charger.  The battery has been great, it cranks really well.  I have had to use the charger a few times (alternator stopped charging and once over the winter) and it is a pleasure to use.  So much better that the cheaper chargers I have used in the past.

Thanks for that, have you got a battery cut-off switch to avoid parasitic loss from the immobiliser when not being used?

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OliverSedlacek

OliverSedlacek

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What's the point of an isolator that doesn't isolate the ECU?

Regarding Ah and CCA, you need a big cold cranking amperage to start your engine. Your mileage may vary, but 200A would be an absolute minimum.

You need to have enough Ah in your battery to sustain the drain from any 'always on' circuits for as long as you need to leave the car without starting it. You also need to be conservative because most batteries don't like being deep discharged. An example may help:

The immobiliser etc draws 25mA (0.025A)

The car is left for 6 weeks, which is 1008 hours.

Multiply the two and the total charge the battery needs to supply is 25 Ah.

The battery shouldn't be discharged below 50%, so it needs to be rated at least 50 Ah.
 

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griffchris

griffchris

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Going full circle, the relevant Magneti Marelli lithium battery is now listed as unavailable by the ebay seller.

Here's hoping Simon (Meteor) comes through for us instead....

I have just ordered a battery master switch from Caterham in the meantime.

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  • 2 months later...
griffchris

griffchris

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An update:

As mentioned above, the Magneti Marelli lithium battery was no longer available through ebay, so after discussing with Simon, I went with a Varley Li-5 lithium battery from Meteor.  It is even smaller and lighter than the MM, weighing just 1.1kg (the Banner was 7.7kg)  I also fitted a cut-off switch to prevent parasitic drain by the immobiliser (though only used the basic connections, so I must make sure the switch is not turned off whilst the engine is running or risk frying the alternator or something!!).

Installation was fairly straightforward, and it works!  It is slightly hesitant on starting, but still starts within 1 to 2 seconds at most.  Happy days....

 

/sites/default/files/images/users/12129/lithium.jpg

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