Tigger Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 A bit of help needed,Following a major re-build I'm trying to work out the Sprint classification for my car, it's either 'Road-going production' or 'Modified series production'.My queries are around the follow spec. Car is a 1995 Supersport.Engine: 1800cc K-series Dry-sump with 1 litre catch tank Multiple throttle bodies Emerald ECU Body Aero-screen half doors un-modifiedChassis Standard S3 Wide track Roll bar FIA tall bar with petty strut. Tyres Either Toyo 888's or Yoko AVAN A048 ROn the latter I'm a bit confused by the blue book where it makes reference to '...OE fitments marked LTS in sizes 195/50x16 & 225/45x17 only). Does this mean these tyres are generally permitted unless in these sizes when they must also have 'LTS' marked on them? I’m thinking the car will be 'Modified series production’, as it has a modified induction but I can’t find reference to ECU. is the ECU spec free? Advice much appreciated Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Tim, is this for the speed championship classes or normal MSA classes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 This is for the normal MSA classes. Although it might be good to know how it stand in the speed championship if I get tempted.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted February 12, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted February 12, 2016 Tim,Toyo R888's are list 1B, but, as far as standard 7 sizes are concerned, are now list 1C.As far as non Lotus 7 club classes are concerned, the only level of modification that is significant is road going or non road going.So, if you were to run your R888's you'd be running list 1b tyres and be road going.As the A048's are now list 1c, you'd be classified as "modified" with the requirement to use a HANS device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Tim, what sort of power at the flywheel is your supersport ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Thanks Richard,In the Blue book I didn't see reference to wheel/tyre sizes for the R888's. Is it buried somewhere else?I'm still a little confused over the MSA tyre classification for the A048's '...OE fitments marked LTS in sizes 195/50x16 & 225/45x17 only). Does this mean these tyres are generally permitted unless in these sizes when they must also have 'LTS' marked on them? It can either be read. that the A048 can be used but if OE in the sizes mentioned they should also be marked 'LTS'. Or, They can only be used in these sizes as they are OE and marked with 'LTS'.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted February 12, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted February 12, 2016 Tim,'pretty sure that A048's are only allowed in those sizes and with the LTS markings. I believe it was intended to allow OEM tyres from certain models of Elise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 B*gger.So as a 1C classification L 2.7 States; For 2016 there is a tyre List 1C. This will be solely for competition tyres complying with EEC Regulation 30 and intended exclusively for racing.Does this mean that A048's excluded from the Sprint regs or would they put the car in to Libre or is there another clause which I've missed?The only other place I see reference to tyres in S11.6.2 (but that is Roadgoing not modified!) I can't find reference to 1C in any other sprint classification. The speed championship seems to be more on the case allowing 1C tyres in classifications 6 & 7 is there any cross-over with the MSA sprint regs?The Blue Book makes things rather confusing!Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 all down to the championship regualtions you are running in.1C tyres are only allowed in modified production classes which the L7C Class 6 & 7 this year will be classed as. 1B tyres are a fast road going tyre and are allowed in classes 3-5 for cars with generall 150BHP ,210BHP and unlimited BHP (providing they comply with the relevant details)1A tyres are standard road going tyres and are mainly class 1&2 for basically 125BHP & 150BHPthe L7C class 1-5 are classed as road going specialist production as opposed to class 6&7 which are classed as modified specialist production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted February 12, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted February 12, 2016 Tim,Tyres are free in "modified", so you can use whatever you like!You're likely to find that "modified" cars generally run slicks.However, you may also find that there are competitors with much closer to standard cars that simply don't want to tax and insure their cars for road use.It's not uncommon, on lower status events, to find that some of the road going classes are actually quicker than the "modified" class.If the car is otherwise road legal, I'd use your R888's and run roadgoing.This year is going to be a bit of a learning curve. It's been clear that either Supersoft Kumho V700A's or Avon ZZR's in A24 compound, have been the tyre of choice for the last five years or so. But this year onwards, we've got to work out what tyres are the most suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks to everyone who's replied. I'm happy being in Mod Prod with the A048's.It's a shame the Blue book isn't more specific. A simple clause stating tyres are 'free' in Mod Prod would have been helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbert Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Tigger , the other issue with Modsports is the HANS device , whilst most new helmets can take posts there is an adaption to the belt mounts onto the car as well so I am told - may be cheaper to by so list B tyres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 I picking sorting the helmet and HANS in the next couple of weeks, but wasn't aware of an issue with the belt mounts?Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Tim if your looking at Running with a FHR you need to ensure that the separation distances and the angles from your shoulders to the mounting point comply with the manufacturers instructions and the blue book.The standard mounting points are set too wide for compliant FHR, there have been a few solutions, from new bosses welded into the chassis to adaptor plates.FHR are mandatory in Class 6&7 but optional in all others. but if used must be compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Arch may have welded new bosses at the new centres when they refurbed the chassis a few weeks ago. I don't yet have the car back to check though. Is there a template for an adaptor plate and more to the point will scuteneers accept them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Might be worth a call to Arch first thing Monday and find out.providing the brackets are well engineered they should be fine but i think there is going to be a number of unknowns and uncertainties as we go into the first events this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 I'll be on the phone to Bruce first thing Monday.Chances are he's incorporated the change (fingers crossed), that part of the car was completely replaced.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I could only get an Arch certified modification to the shoulder harness positions by being there in the car with the HANS device/Helmet on whilst the new positions were located. This gave the correct angles for the straps in side to side position and vertical plane.But I don't think a certified mounting is an MSA requirement.Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted February 14, 2016 Area Representative Share Posted February 14, 2016 Height of the harnesses is potentially an issue.I'm not tall, and sit low in the car (but don't have lowered floors). My harnesses are actually bolted to the underside of the seat back cross member and come through the seat back bulkhead so that the harnesses are at an acceptable angle to horizontal for use with HANS.I actually found that one of the original harness bosses was in an acceptable position, but had to move just one.The ideal position for the harness mounting points varies depending on your own physical size, and the position that you sit in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Interesting point Malcolm.The other issue I'm finding is that the FIA guidance states dimensions between harness fixing points based on the width of the HANS collar. The problem is that this information is not given by the HANS manufacturers (schroth and Stand 21) instead they give shirt collar size which is not particularly helpful.http://www.fia.com/file/2059/download?token=JZgU_uNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 Ok! It seems that to be correctly certified I have to go to Arch with my HANS device & helmet, sit in the car and have the harness fixing installed for my particular set-up. All for the princely sum of £200.So to be compliant with Mod Prod the costs are: HANS - £250 Helmet - £375 Harness fixings - £200It's all getting quite expensive when for rather less I could put a different set of boots on my spare rims and run in Road-going.I have a bit of time to ponder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Sec Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Currently the FHR mounts don't have to be certified for MSA events. (They do for FIA International events) they need to comply with drawing K39. see page 189 of the blue book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliW Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I went to Arch for mine. Like Richard, my belts are mounted under the rail now. I have lowered floors and a Tillett, and am 5'10". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Short arse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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