Members Only Forum

[Ian B]

I thought that this had been specifically suggested several times before, but I can only find references to it is other threads (eg here), so here it is:

Can we please have a Members Only forum where things such as the Clubs Accounts, How bad the Website is (  ), etc can be discussed out of public view?

Thanks
Ian

[Jonathan Kay]

I'm in favour.

Jonathan

PS: I'm also in favour of nearly all of the site being restricted to Members with only carefully selected tasters and tempters showing to the wider world.

[sjmmarsh]

I'm in favour too. We know it can be done easily as that is the way that the Technical forum was initially working and there is also the MT section that is hidden.

i am happy that the other parts of the site are available as read only to entice new members to join and participate.

Steve

[Mort]

My original request is to be found here:- http://www.lotus7.club/forum/suggestions/create-private-club-matters-forum

It's my understanding that the Management Team have a private forum, as do the Area Reps, so this is clearly easily achievable.  If it's a matter of cost then perhaps one of the aforementioned forums could be renamed and made available to all members.  If there is only one private Management Team / Area Rep forum then perhaps that could be made available to all of us, as I really don't understand why the Management Team need to keep club matters hidden from the membership.

Strangely, this request does not appear on the outstanding issues log. Neither does my request for a single button to mark all forums as read.  There are other requests not mentioned either. No idea why they've been omitted.

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Nick, there certainly are AR and MT forums, so the technical set up should be simple.

I support the idea. It's effectiveness depends upon the discrimination of the posting members. I would comment that in other forums posts can be moved by webmasters/moderators, I have never seen that done here. It would be valuable here to take some threads into Members Only.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Nick, don't worry about your suggestions receiving no response. The same happens to me. I don't really mind if a suggestion is rejected, I will have suffered worse and it is only me making the suggestion. However proposals should be acknowledged, considered and put on a "to be implemented" or rejected. I consider that all those items on the list which have hung around for months with no action taken fit into a category "ignore and they will go away". This is true in that we, the members loose the will to oppose the abominable noman".

Just look down the page in " Bugs" and see how many direct responses have been made by members of the MT.

[Mort]

Thanks for confirming that Stephen.  So I guess that renaming one of those forums and enabling use by all members would be a pretty straightforward process.

I've found my request for a button to mark all forums as read, which is here:- http://www.lotus7.club/forum/feedback/marking-all-forums-read 

Perhaps that could be added to the Issues Log too?

"Just look down the page in " Bugs" and see how many direct responses have been made by members of the MT." 

I've noticed that too Stephen.  Nice to know that it's not just me.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

You wouldn't reasign an existing forum. The two private forums are needed but an additional one can be created. I have suggested a reduction to the number of sub-divisions here: http://www.lotus7.club/forum/suggestions/it-occurs-me-having-three-parts-backchat-probably-unnecessary

[Mort]

As per my first post, I would only suggest reassignment if cost was an issue, as I feel that it's more important to have a private members' forum than two (or indeed any) management forums.

I agree with your comments in the linked thread.

[Shaun_E]

If one of you would like to update the issues log with all the items you think are missing then please do. You can download it and then re upload - I'll move the updated version to the first post. Please do not remove any items/comments already there but feel free to make additions. It would be good if one person would manage this rather than every man and his dog having a go.

As you well know, there are finite resources both in terms of money and volunteers' time. Many of the requests just haven't yet made it to the consideration stage or, if they have, they are so far down the list that there will be no action for the foreseeable future. The requests made so far could cost tens of thousands of pounds to develop so we have to be very clear on prioritising the ones which are best value for the club. Any existing functions that break are immediately dealt with.

Just because someone makes a request doesn't mean it's going to get immediate attention. As I've said many times, I try to answer most posts in the bugs/suggestions areas but I can't respond to them all. There are plenty of requests that will be turned down on value vs cost grounds - that's just the way it is. If you want a say in that decision, join the team.

Regarding a members only forum, yes it can be done but, as ever, there is  cost. I've looked at whether I can do it myself and it is may be possible but I need time to test it - time I don't have right now. Yes it is reasonably straightforward but it still takes time to make the changes, test them properly and put them live.

Ian - why don't you raise the members forum idea on the MT forum and see if other MT members are in agreement. If they are then I'll get a price to have it done and we can put it in the priority list.

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

File downloaded, updated and mailed to websitehelp@lotus7club.com

 

[Mort]

Thanks Stephen.  

Shaun - Would it be possible to merge the MT and AR forums, and then make the other private forum available to all members as a low-cost option, or are the MT involved in super-secret stuff that they don't want the ARs to be party to?

[Shaun_E]

The MT forum may contain discussions that cannot, for confidentiality reasons, be visible to anyone else including ARs. For instance discussions with 3rd parties (suppliers or otherwise) that may or may not come to fruition. This is quite normal in any company.

The ARs also need a forum where they can have frank discussion without the inhibition of those discussions becoming public.

I can create a members only forum easily enough and even manage the permissions for who can view/post to it but I need NDP to keep it out of the search results and double check what I have done. They may also be aware of consequences I am not - I am not a Drupal developer, just a site administrator.

The MT will discuss the request and, if they agree with it, it will get priced and slotted into the priority list. At the moment the big priority is to get the webshop up and running so that people can pay their subscription on-line and also book and pay for club events.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Nick, I doubt the difference in cost between merging and creating is so very different. Considering two forum profiles are there to be copied and pasted, with a couple of software switches to be selected, it ought to cost very little. I doubt NPD will see it like that, there is money to be made.

 

I see a good use for the AR and MT forums.

[Mort]

Thanks for the explanation Shaun.

I had similar thoughts Stephen, but my technical knowledge is somewhat out of date.

[Ian B]

BTTT

Have also raised it on the MT forum as suggested.

[Mort]

Thanks.  

[Ian B]

To conclude this, I raised it on the MT forum as follows:

The Members Only Forum has been requested and discussed on many threads, and in my view would be a useful place for members to ask, and MT to answer, any questions that may not reflect the Club in a good light if discussed "publicly". If Members questions are ignored, then yes they'll go and shout louder on other forums, but in my view most of that is done by non/ex members.

Members views must be listened to, and responded to, and that seems like a good place to do it.

I saw the members only forum as having several positive benefits:

1. Allow the members to discuss Club related things that it would be best not to have out in the open. Eg we've responded before with "we can't discuss the accounts (or any other topic deemde to be for members eyes only) on a publicly viewable forum".

2. Be somewhere to move controversial topics that present the Club in a bad light. That may or may not include complaints about the forum, or anything else Club related. Just to ignore those members who complain is inappropriate in my view. They are Club members and should be responded to.

3. Be somewhere where we can publish responses to any 'sensitive' issues afecting Club members. In the past Arrowstar comes to mind, but it could be changes at CC, or even discussions about changing the Club name for example! None of need to be in the puiblic domain in our "shop window" for all to see.

If the only concern is that members will go there to complain and moan, then surely it's better to have that sort of stuff in private than on our 'publicly viewable' forum?

There were several opposing views and arguments expressed but it's not my place to post them on here.

There was an informal vote and 9 were against vs 1 (me!) for a members only section, so it won't be going ahead I'm afraid.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Maybe the ARs would think differently (a bit like the House of Lords).

[Mort]

Thanks Ian. That's precisely my opinion - you have my vote for Chairman!

The fact that the Management Team roundly opposed this comes as no surprise.  The club's management, as I have said before, run the club like a Limited Company (which of course it is), where the Directors take the decisions, and the subscribers can like it or lump it.  Shame on them for being autocratic, rather than asking the membership for their opinion.

Absolute power, and all that.

[tbird]

Maybe I have not thought it through fully but I can think of no logical reason, other than maybe cost which I would have thought neglible, not to have a members only forum, I understand you don't want to post attributeable views but can you indicate the gist of the reasons not to have a Members only section. Obviously understand your position may preclude this

 

Tim

[paul richards]

Are  you serious??? If the management team referred every decision to the membership nothing would ever get done. 

There are directors of the club but it is the management team who make the decisions. Members can become part of the management team if they wish to be involved in the decision making process.

[bluenose]

I think the trouble with having a Members Only forum is that someone from the club can log on and show his non member mate(read ex club member with a grudge) what is being discussed, he then goes on Pistonheads/Facebook and slags off the club saying whatever he feels and no one other than club members can respond to.

Better to keep things out in the open or if it is private use email, don't put it on a forum.

All IMHO of course.

Nick

[Shaun_E]

There is a cost to creating an additional forum and then hiding it from the search (a few hundred pounds).

The view of the team was that there is very little that can't be discussed in an open forum - we have nothing to hide. The few sensitive subjects we have cannot be shared with all members anyway as they may be confidential (hence the MT and AR forums) - examples being discussions with suppliers and other entities including Caterham Cars.

The feeling was that a members only forum would a) dilute chitchat and b) perhaps encourage inappropriate behaviour if members thought their posts weren't visible to the outside world.

I would be interested to know what topics people think would be discussed in such a forum and why they could not be in a public forum. I realise there is a view that we shouldn't "air our dirty laundry in public" but, as above, what dirty laundry do we have?

I don't know of other clubs that have such a forum although some hide all their forum from non-members. There was no such forum on "old blatchat".

There are a number of other changes to make and we are progressing those instead.

[Mort]

Hi Shaun

My reasons for this request, and the nature of the topics that I envisaged being discussed, can be found in my original suggestion, a link to which I provided at the beginning of this thread. Ian's excellent submission on the MT Forum, which he has quoted above, makes the case better than I ever did.

Shortly after making my original request I received a somewhat vitriolic email from our leader, in which he wrote (amongst other things) "We have no desire to "wash our dirty linen" in public and your wish for us to do so has hampered my ability to manage the situation". This, to me, heightened the need for a forum in which contentious club issues could be raised, and honest and open discussions had, out of the gaze of non members.

Interestingly, in reply to my original request, you replied "A members only discussion forum is a good idea but there is a cost and time element to consider and at the moment there are other priorities.". Clearly things have moved on, and you have reversed your opinion since then.

All of this is academic, of course, as the decision has now been made.

Nick